English Ringers, mate!

[social]

In what other way can you be "English", tbh?

Simple example

Good friend of mine has lived in Hong Kong for 30 years

He is Australian and his wife, whom he met in HK, is Australian

They have 2 kids who were both born and bred in Hong Kong but naturally hold Australian passports

Last year, their eldest son finished school and being a bright kid with a rich dad, he pretty much had the choice of going to any uni in the world

When discussing choices, my friend asked his son whether he'd ever thought of considering "home" (meaning Oz, a country where the family had its' roots and which they visited every year)

The son replied that he'd prefer not to as he thought it would be a good experience to study "overseas" (meaning outside Hong Kong)

My friend was a bit upset by this but, upon reflection, came to the conclusion that his son was right - Hong Kong was his home and the only thing "Australian" about him was his passport

That's how I look at the KPs etc of this world when they first get off the plane - they're foreigners who have decided to pitch their tent somewhere else (much like I've done in the UAE)

 

[zaremba]

All of which is fair enough, social. But it depends from person to person, and in any case I just think it's a bit of an irrelevance (many might disagree with me).

Robin Smith probably arrived here thinking of himself as a proper Saffer, and for all I know may have continued to think that way throughout his time in the England team. But his commitment to the cause, and his readiness to throw himself into it, was absolutely unquestioned. Watching him bat, I couldn't give a monkey's what philosophical stance he takes on the country that he regards as home or his particular levels of patriotism. All I care about is that he is delivering on the pitch for my team. Same goes for Pietersen.

 

[four_or_six]

Simple example

Good friend of mine has lived in Hong Kong for 30 years

He is Australian and his wife, whom he met in HK, is Australian

They have 2 kids who were both born and bred in Hong Kong but naturally hold Australian passports

Last year, their eldest son finished school and being a bright kid with a rich dad, he pretty much had the choice of going to any uni in the world

When discussing choices, my friend asked his son whether he'd ever thought of considering "home" (meaning Oz, a country where the family had its' roots and which they visited every year)

The son replied that he'd prefer not to as he thought it would be a good experience to study "overseas" (meaning outside Hong Kong)

My friend was a bit upset by this but, upon reflection, came to the conclusion that his son was right - Hong Kong was his home and the only thing "Australian" about him was his passport

That's how I look at the KPs etc of this world when they first get off the plane - they're foreigners who have decided to pitch their tent somewhere else (much like I've done in the UAE)

Not really sure what point you're trying to make, there's millions of people who move around at all kinds of points in their lives. It doesn't mean they all fit to your example.

If you consider yourself English, and have some or any of being born here, have lived here for a significant time, have parents who are English, have a British passport, I don't see why you shouldn't call yourself English and work here. And working here includes getting to the top of your career, and for cricketers that means playing for England. KP isn't a foreigner who has just got off a plane, he's a man who has spent ten years living and working here, has married and English lady, has an English child. He's as English as he wants to consider himself.

 

[social]

Not really sure what point you're trying to make, there's millions of people who move around at all kinds of points in their lives. It doesn't mean they all fit to your example.

If you consider yourself English, and have some or any of being born here, have lived here for a significant time, have parents who are English, have a British passport, I don't see why you shouldn't call yourself English and work here. And working here includes getting to the top of your career, and for cricketers that means playing for England. KP isn't a foreigner who has just got off a plane, he's a man who has spent ten years living and working here, has married and English lady, has an English child. He's as English as he wants to consider himself.

That's why I stipulated "when they first get off the plane."

To that point, he had been born, bred, trained and spent his entire life in South Africa.

In other words, he was a South African

Now he has shown commitment to the country in more ways than one so shouldnt simply be seen as a blow in

 

[GGG]

Not really sure what point you're trying to make, there's millions of people who move around at all kinds of points in their lives. It doesn't mean they all fit to your example.

If you consider yourself English, and have some or any of being born here, have lived here for a significant time, have parents who are English, have a British passport, I don't see why you shouldn't call yourself English and work here. And working here includes getting to the top of your career, and for cricketers that means playing for England. KP isn't a foreigner who has just got off a plane, he's a man who has spent ten years living and working here, has married and English lady, has an English child. He's as English as he wants to consider himself.

Of course if he was joe blow plumber the chances are he would still be in SA, wonder where his loyalties would lie if dual citizenship/passports were a thing of the past.

 

[GGG]

I am married to a Maltese lady, lived here for about 5 years now, have a Maltese born child but no way in the world would I consider myself anything but a Kiwi, ever.

 

[andyc]

Simple example

Good friend of mine has lived in Hong Kong for 30 years

He is Australian and his wife, whom he met in HK, is Australian

They have 2 kids who were both born and bred in Hong Kong but naturally hold Australian passports

Last year, their eldest son finished school and being a bright kid with a rich dad, he pretty much had the choice of going to any uni in the world

When discussing choices, my friend asked his son whether he'd ever thought of considering "home" (meaning Oz, a country where the family had its' roots and which they visited every year)

The son replied that he'd prefer not to as he thought it would be a good experience to study "overseas" (meaning outside Hong Kong)

My friend was a bit upset by this but, upon reflection, came to the conclusion that his son was right - Hong Kong was his home and the only thing "Australian" about him was his passport

That's how I look at the KPs etc of this world when they first get off the plane - they're foreigners who have decided to pitch their tent somewhere else (much like I've done in the UAE)

I'm willing to bet, though, that while he considered Hong Kong his home, he certainly wouldn't have considered himself Cantonese. Home is just where you sleep at night.

 

[TT Boy]

I'm willing to bet, though, that while he considered Hong Kong his home, he certainly wouldn't have considered himself Cantonese. Home is just where you sleep at night.

Or Chinese.

 

[andyc]

Debateable whether all people from Hong Kong consider themselves Chinese, tbf.

Edit: You still there btw? Thinking of heading back sometime soonish and was wondering whether or not Hunan was worth a visit.

 

[TT Boy]

Debateable whether all people from Hong Kong consider themselves Chinese, tbf.

Edit: You still there btw? Thinking of heading back sometime soonish and was wondering whether or not Hunan was worth a visit.

Haven't met one who has to be honest.

I'm going back to China next month. I will be working in Beijing, so probably won't get back to Hunan until Spring Festival if I decide to stay in Beijing. Hunan is great, its China 20 years ago, just no jobs there for foreigners unless you want to teach or have very good guanxi. If you go, you have to check out Zhangjiajie, so beautiful.

 

[Langeveldt]

I'm willing to bet, though, that while he considered Hong Kong his home, he certainly wouldn't have considered himself Cantonese. Home is just where you sleep at night.

Yep.. In cricket it also matters little what you consider yourself to be.. Everyone will have their own opinion.. Usually in KP's case it will be entirely dependant as to how many runs he scores, as to what country people insist he comes from..

 

[social]

I'm willing to bet, though, that while he considered Hong Kong his home, he certainly wouldn't have considered himself Cantonese. Home is just where you sleep at night.

"Cantonese" is not a nationality in the strictest sense of the word

Most Hong Kong Chinese are "Cantonese" in origin but simply "Hong Kong Chinese" unless someone tries to lump them in with their mainland countrymen (which they hate btw)

Anyway, I know plenty of people who were born and bred in HK and hold British passports

Yet, aside from the odd holiday, they have had not contact with England.

Does that make them "British"?

 

[andyc]

From my experience, chances are they would have gone to an international school, mingled only with other expats, and in no way identified themselves with your normal HK citizen. They're hardly makes them Cantonese, or whatever you want to call it.

 

[wpdavid]

Yep.. In cricket it also matters little what you consider yourself to be.. Everyone will have their own opinion.. Usually in KP's case it will be entirely dependant as to how many runs he scores, as to what country people insist he comes from..

... and who's doing the insisting. Us English folks consider him English when he does well and pick up on the SA education system when he messes up. Everyone else, OTOH, is obsessed with his place of birth when he does well.

I think the other thing is the opinion of the parents when the dual-national was born. I find it hard to believe that Richard & Mrs Lumb considered their lad anything other than English when he popped out, irrespective of where said birth took place. Clearly that's more debateable for others though.

 

[WindieWeathers]

The Caribbean born teenager Chesney Hughes who plays for Derbyshire is really impressing right now, he's already got himself a 50 and 118 in the few games he's played and he's on 38 right now, looks like he could be a massive talent for my beloved Windies in the near future!!.. (if England don't nick him of course!! ) .

 

[Furball]

If he's Anguillan he's eligible for England, it would hardly be stealing him.

 

[WindieWeathers]

If he's Anguillan he's eligible for England, it would hardly be stealing him.

We'll he's born in the Caribbean and has represented West Indies u19's and Leewards already!!, in my book England would be blatantly stealing the young man!! , thankfully word has it he wants to play for us, but the form he's showing right now i'm certain England will cheekily test the waters!! .

 

[Furball]

We'll he's born in the Caribbean and has represented West Indies u19's and Leewards already!!, in my book England would be blatantly stealing the young man!! , thankfully word has it he wants to play for us, but the form he's showing right now i'm certain England will cheekily test the waters!! .

The same way the West Indies stole Gordon Greenidge?

 

[superkingdave]

Althouth I presume as soon as he gets selected for any WI representative side that's pretty much it for his county career?

 

[Furball]

Althouth I presume as soon as he gets selected for any WI representative side that's pretty much it for his county career?

He's a UK passport holder is he not?