*Official* South Africa in West Indies

[WindieWeathers]

I don't think being picked for A team tour going to England means anything to be honest, if Ramdin is still shambolic in the next few ODI's they will have no choice but to give Walton a chance, it's as simple as that, also i'd argue that Fletcher wasn't that bad behind the stumps towards the end, he took quite a few impressive catches imo but like Ramdin his batting simply wasn't up to par,

As far as Darren Bravo is concerned again i think you're being conservative as usual Mike, he's earned the right to be selected for these Tests imo, you always talk about batters "hitting tons" and that's exactly what he's done for the A-team, he's exactly the kind of young talent that should be putting pressure on the likes of Chanders who hasn't impressed in a test series for a while, you already know my opinion about Dowlin, the guy simply isn't good enough imo and i'd rather pick Devon Smith before him,

One thing i'm wondering about is the bowling unit, Taylor and Roach are first choices of course but who bowls with them? do we give another fast pacer like Pascal a chance? that's what i'm wondering about, i'm confident Shillingford will make his debut so i'd consider leaving Benn out to be honest, Shilly could be backed up by Deo or Gayle with Spin.

 

[GotSpin]

I don't think being picked for A team tour going to England means anything to be honest, if Ramdin is still shambolic in the next few ODI's they will have no choice but to give Walton a chance, it's as simple as that, also i'd argue that Fletcher wasn't that bad behind the stumps towards the end, he took quite a few impressive catches imo but like Ramdin his batting simply wasn't up to par,

As far as Darren Bravo is concerned again i think you're being conservative as usual Mike, he's earned the right to be selected for these Tests imo, you always talk about batters "hitting tons" and that's exactly what he's done for the A-team, he's exactly the kind of young talent that should be putting pressure on the likes of Chanders who hasn't impressed in a test series for a while, you already know my opinion about Dowlin, the guy simply isn't good enough imo and i'd rather pick Devon Smith before him,

One thing i'm wondering about is the bowling unit, Taylor and Roach are first choices of course but who bowls with them? do we give another fast pacer like Pascal a chance? that's what i'm wondering about, i'm confident Shillingford will make his debut so i'd consider leaving Benn out to be honest, Shilly could be backed up by Deo or Gayle with Spin.

What happens if Roach is injured? The bowling lineup seems really bare then. What's the pitch going to be like.

Could they take two spinners in potentially?

 

[Hogey]

Hows Fidel Edwards injury? When will he be back?

 

[WindieWeathers]

What happens if Roach is injured? The bowling lineup seems really bare then. What's the pitch going to be like.

Could they take two spinners in potentially?

To be honest it would be a nightmare if that were to happen!!, him and Taylor have been taking wickets in the this series thus far and no doubt we'll need them in top form if we are to come out on top, thankfully the latest reports suggest he's only got a little soreness on his ankle (obtained from playing football for crying out loud!! lol) but he should be fine for the Tests,

As for the pitches, i'm not sure yet, i do know the Trini pitches tend to be more spin friendly and that's where i feel we will have a big advantage when we play them there, we could either play Shillingford on his own and let Gayle and Deonarine support him with spin or let Shillingford and Benn have a go at them, South Africa looked all at sea against India's spin attack in their last test so who knows what could happen here!!, one thing is for sure i think we're gonna put up one hell of a fight if all our players are fit and ready.

 

[WindieWeathers]

Hows Fidel Edwards injury? When will he be back?

He had surgery on his back earlier this year, word is he probably won't be back to full fitness until next year.

 

[GotSpin]

To be honest it would be a nightmare if that were to happen!!, him and Taylor have been taking wickets in the this series thus far and no doubt we'll need them in top form if we are to come out on top, thankfully the latest reports suggest he's only got a little soreness on his ankle (obtained from playing football for crying out loud!! lol) but he should be fine for the Tests,

As for the pitches, i'm not sure yet, i do know the Trini pitches tend to be more spin friendly and that's where i feel we will have a big advantage when we play them there, we could either play Shillingford on his own and let Gayle and Deonarine support him with spin or let Shillingford and Benn have a go at them, South Africa looked all at sea against India's spin attack in their last test so who knows what could happen here!!, one thing is for sure i think we're gonna put up one hell of a fight if all our players are fit and ready.

I wouldn't mind an attack of Roach/Taylor/Shillingford/Benn against South Africa. Something different with Fidel not around

I feel the other WI pacers tried so far, Ramp, Sammy, are just not good enough and until we (can i say that as a WI fan?) see improved performances other than in the LO arena I don't see the point of playing them as travelers anymore - Can't comment on the others that haven't debuted yet.

As for the keeper issue, I see this as a relatively minor one. IMO, he is there to keep wicket, not score huge runs, especially in tests. Sure try something different in the remaining ODIs, but if he is the best man behind the stumps in the Caribbean he should play every test.

There are far more pressing issues at hand anyway, both tests and LO, especially with the batting and bowling. Fitness seems to be a key problem also. Can't have Barath and Roach breaking down when they're so young and the potential leaders of the Windies. If the conditions are right, and players are fit, I can see the current lineup, not including the up and coming players in WI A, playing quite competitively. Little Bravo seems to be quite a talent but his average isn't too great atm so I'd like to see him improve upon that first.

 

[WindieWeathers]

I wouldn't mind an attack of Roach/Taylor/Shillingford/Benn against South Africa. Something different with Fidel not around

I feel the other WI pacers tried so far, Ramp, Sammy, are just not good enough and until we (can i say that as a WI fan?) see improved performances other than in the LO arena I don't see the point of playing them as travelers anymore - Can't comment on the others that haven't debuted yet.

As for the keeper issue, I see this as a relatively minor one. IMO, he is there to keep wicket, not score huge runs, especially in tests. Sure try something different in the remaining ODIs, but if he is the best man behind the stumps in the Caribbean he should play every test.

There are far more pressing issues at hand anyway, both tests and LO, especially with the batting and bowling. Fitness seems to be a key problem also. Can't have Barath and Roach breaking down when they're so young and the potential leaders of the Windies. If the conditions are right, and players are fit, I can see the current lineup, not including the up and coming players in WI A, playing quite competitively. Little Bravo seems to be quite a talent but his average isn't too great atm so I'd like to see him improve upon that first.

Your a WI fan? for some reason i thought you was an Aussie!! , but i agree with most of what you say, i'm not loving Ramdin at the moment but he's certainly great with the gloves and that's vital when you come up against these top sides, another issue is whether Sarwan will be fit enough too!!, he had a bad leg injury in the last ODI so it will be touch and go whether he plays or not, Nelon Pascal is very fast and has done very well for the A-team too which is why i think he might get a chance, it's up to Gibson in the end i guess.

 

[vic_orthdox]

If you were looking to replace Ramdin in ODIs, I think that it would be best done at the beginning of a series, rather than rushing him in halfway through a series such as the current one. Announce the player's inclusion at the start of the series, don't include Ramdin in the squad, and let the player have a chance to prove himself as a player, rather than feel the pressure of replacing someone else.

Is Ramdin still Vice Captain? Obviously this could be coming into play as well, as a keeper the selection panel would be loathe to drop him when he's a leader and he's still executing his primary skill to the level required.

 

[GotSpin]

Your a WI fan? for some reason i thought you was an Aussie!! , but i agree with most of what you say, i'm not loving Ramdin at the moment but he's certainly great with the gloves and that's vital when you come up against these top sides, another issue is whether Sarwan will be fit enough too!!, he had a bad leg injury in the last ODI so it will be touch and go whether he plays or not, Nelon Pascal is very fast and has done very well for the A-team too which is why i think he might get a chance, it's up to Gibson in the end i guess.

I'm both an Aussie and Windies fan! I tend to read every post in CC about the WI.

In regards to Ramdin, I believe he has to stay. Keeping is no.1 priority and IMO, its more of a concern that batting is being left up to him when the middle order continues to fail rather his ability to make large contributions.

The annoying thing about the frequent injuries to the best players is that the replacements tend to be fillers who have already failed at the highest level, often a number of times, but have performed well in a weaker domestic competition to gain favour with the selectors. While I don't agree with your stance of wholesale changes to the team, when injuries crop up it presents a great opportunity to the younger guys rather than the 'travellers' in West Indies cricket, or, perhaps a change in tactics.

 

[WindieWeathers]

If you were looking to replace Ramdin in ODIs, I think that it would be best done at the beginning of a series, rather than rushing him in halfway through a series such as the current one. Announce the player's inclusion at the start of the series, don't include Ramdin in the squad, and let the player have a chance to prove himself as a player, rather than feel the pressure of replacing someone else.

Is Ramdin still Vice Captain? Obviously this could be coming into play as well, as a keeper the selection panel would be loathe to drop him when he's a leader and he's still executing his primary skill to the level required.

I'm not 100 percent sure but i think Dwayne Bravo is now vice captain, i guess that's why Ramdin has been dropped more than once since Gibbo arrived, if Andre Fletcher had taken his chances i think his position would be seriously in doubt, but as others have said he's extremely good behind the stumps and if he takes a few excellent catches that's gonna be just as vital as hitting a few runs down the order.

On another note, Gibson has said Shillingford will probably be making his debut in the Tests, so it's looking more and more likely that it's gonna be a Taylor-Roach-Bravo-Benn and Shillingford bowling attack, South Africa are said to be a little vulnerable to spin (as India demonstrated in their last Test against them) so things could get interesting in these tests that's for sure.

 

[shivfan]

I don't think being picked for A team tour going to England means anything to be honest, if Ramdin is still shambolic in the next few ODI's they will have no choice but to give Walton a chance, it's as simple as that, also i'd argue that Fletcher wasn't that bad behind the stumps towards the end, he took quite a few impressive catches imo but like Ramdin his batting simply wasn't up to par,

As far as Darren Bravo is concerned again i think you're being conservative as usual Mike, he's earned the right to be selected for these Tests imo, you always talk about batters "hitting tons" and that's exactly what he's done for the A-team, he's exactly the kind of young talent that should be putting pressure on the likes of Chanders who hasn't impressed in a test series for a while, you already know my opinion about Dowlin, the guy simply isn't good enough imo and i'd rather pick Devon Smith before him,

One thing i'm wondering about is the bowling unit, Taylor and Roach are first choices of course but who bowls with them? do we give another fast pacer like Pascal a chance? that's what i'm wondering about, i'm confident Shillingford will make his debut so i'd consider leaving Benn out to be honest, Shilly could be backed up by Deo or Gayle with Spin.

Are you talking about the Tests? Because this squad is for the next two ODIs, so clearly we have to look at the Tests, and you can't judge Test cricketers on the basis of a few ODIs, or Pollard would be making his Test debut!

1) As a Test keeper, Ramdin gets my vote. I believe a Test keeper's first job is to keep wicket, and Ramdin has been good in that department. Are you advocating a batsman/keeper instead for five-day cricket? Surely, you're not saying that Fletcher would be a better keeper than Ramdin for the longer version of the game....

2) Darren Bravo has made runs in Bangladesh, but remember that's against a popgun attack. Yes, that's good, but I'd still like to see him do it against better bowlers on pitches more helpful to bowlers, i.e. England. Let him make that tour first. I'm happy with his progress, but I think he needs a little more cricket education, and a tour of England would be perfect.

3) Dowlin vs Devon Smith: Dowlin has the better Test batting average, so it's no contest, as far as I'm concerned....

4) Bowling: why not an attack of Taylor, Roach, Benn and Shilly? This attack could work, because Bravo also bowls pace....

 

[GotSpin]

Are you talking about the Tests? Because this squad is for the next two ODIs, so clearly we have to look at the Tests, and you can't judge Test cricketers on the basis of a few ODIs, or Pollard would be making his Test debut!

1) As a Test keeper, Ramdin gets my vote. I believe a Test keeper's first job is to keep wicket, and Ramdin has been good in that department. Are you advocating a batsman/keeper instead for five-day cricket? Surely, you're not saying that Fletcher would be a better keeper than Ramdin for the longer version of the game....

2) Darren Bravo has made runs in Bangladesh, but remember that's against a popgun attack. Yes, that's good, but I'd still like to see him do it against better bowlers on pitches more helpful to bowlers, i.e. England. Let him make that tour first. I'm happy with his progress, but I think he needs a little more cricket education, and a tour of England would be perfect.

3) Dowlin vs Devon Smith: Dowlin has the better Test batting average, so it's no contest, as far as I'm concerned....

4) Bowling: why not an attack of Taylor, Roach, Benn and Shilly? This attack could work, because Bravo also bowls pace....

tbf WW said before

i agree with most of what you say, i'm not loving Ramdin at the moment but he's certainly great with the gloves and that's vital when you come up against these top sides

edit.

The issue, that I see, is whether Little Bravo should play if Barath and Sarwan are both injured for the first test.

 

[WindieWeathers]

Are you talking about the Tests? Because this squad is for the next two ODIs, so clearly we have to look at the Tests, and you can't judge Test cricketers on the basis of a few ODIs, or Pollard would be making his Test debut!

1) As a Test keeper, Ramdin gets my vote. I believe a Test keeper's first job is to keep wicket, and Ramdin has been good in that department. Are you advocating a batsman/keeper instead for five-day cricket? Surely, you're not saying that Fletcher would be a better keeper than Ramdin for the longer version of the game....

2) Darren Bravo has made runs in Bangladesh, but remember that's against a popgun attack. Yes, that's good, but I'd still like to see him do it against better bowlers on pitches more helpful to bowlers, i.e. England. Let him make that tour first. I'm happy with his progress, but I think he needs a little more cricket education, and a tour of England would be perfect.

3) Dowlin vs Devon Smith: Dowlin has the better Test batting average, so it's no contest, as far as I'm concerned....

4) Bowling: why not an attack of Taylor, Roach, Benn and Shilly? This attack could work, because Bravo also bowls pace....

Mike as Got_Spin already pointed out i'm not arguing against Ramdin keeping wicket for these tests!!, i'm just saying if his confidence continues to drop then other options might have to come into play, Chadwick Walton is very good behind the stumps and is improving with the bat so i don't think he'd let us down if he was needed, and yes i am talking about the tests, unlike you i tend to like our players going into them with some form and confidence, Deo for example isn't helping himself at all right now, hopefully if he's picked he can turn it around in the tests but i'm not sure.

As for Darren Bravo, well as always you're moving the goalposts Mike!! , first it's "he has to perform for the A-team", then it's "he has to score tons" and now it's "he has to do it against better opposition"!! , so what about South Africa A then? aren't they decent enough? the bottom line is he's done brilliant so far and he's earned the right to be selected for the Tests IMO, i hope he does well today so he can go into them full of confidence, Gibbo certainly seems excited about him and rightly so because the kid is talented, he's more than capable of having the same kind impact as Barath i believe.

 

[TT Boy]

Smith did for Amla. Captain still struggling.

 

[GotSpin]

Mike as Got_Spin already pointed out i'm not arguing against Ramdin keeping wicket for these tests!!, i'm just saying if his confidence continues to drop then other options might have to come into play, Chadwick Walton is very good behind the stumps and is improving with the bat so i don't think he'd let us down if he was needed, and yes i am talking about the tests, unlike you i tend to like our players going into them with some form and confidence, Deo for example isn't helping himself at all right now, hopefully if he's picked he can turn it around in the tests but i'm not sure.

As for Darren Bravo, well as always you're moving the goalposts Mike!! , first it's "he has to perform for the A-team", then it's "he has to score tons" and now it's "he has to do it against better opposition"!! , so what about South Africa A then? aren't they decent enough? the bottom line is he's done brilliant so far and he's earned the right to be selected for the Tests IMO, i hope he does well today so he can go into them full of confidence, Gibbo certainly seems excited about him and rightly so because the kid is talented, he's more than capable of having the same kind impact as Barath i believe.

You bring up a good point of confidence, but its not just Ramdin this concerns. What if Little Bravo was thrust onto the international stage too early, experienced a string of failures and was then dropped. This is a very damaging scenario and could set back a potential star a number of years. Of course, there's the reverse situation but it is a gamble to start earlier rather than later.

 

[popepouri]

No. 5 look a problem. Peterson and Duminy aren't up to snuff.

 

[Jayzamann]

deV can't be on again, can he? He's lighting it up in ODIs this year.

 

[shivfan]

As for Darren Bravo, well as always you're moving the goalposts Mike!! , first it's "he has to perform for the A-team", then it's "he has to score tons" and now it's "he has to do it against better opposition"!! , so what about South Africa A then? aren't they decent enough? the bottom line is he's done brilliant so far and he's earned the right to be selected for the Tests IMO, i hope he does well today so he can go into them full of confidence, Gibbo certainly seems excited about him and rightly so because the kid is talented, he's more than capable of having the same kind impact as Barath i believe.

As you've probably noticed, Darren Bravo was out for one a short while ago....

He should not be rushed into the WI Test team before he's ready. Let him play the other two ODIs, and then let him go to England to complete his A team education.

 

[WindieWeathers]

As you've probably noticed, Darren Bravo was out for one a short while ago....

He should not be rushed into the WI Test team before he's ready. Let him play the other two ODIs, and then let him go to England to complete his A team education.

And what evidence is there to suggest "he's not ready"? furthermore you're judging Darren's batting in an ODI!!, and yet just yesterday you said "we shouldn't judge Deonarine in the one dayers"!!, sounds like a contradiction Mike!! .

 

[WindieWeathers]

As for todays game, our bowling was very good i thought and we saw once again that South Africa are just not comfortable against spin, which bodes well for us in the tests, batting was shambolic as usual but with Barath, Sarwan and Nash to come in we've still got a chance.