*Official* Road to the 2010/11 Ashes

[Sir Alex]

3) Swann won't find Oz pitches to his liking IMO - fingerspinners generally struggle out here and I don't think Swann , in all honesty is better than Bhajji and Saqlain - probably the two best touring finger spinners to have come to Oz in the last few years.

However he'll be up against probably the weakest Australian batting lineup England had to face down under in decades. Swann may not return with extremely impressive figures but if he manages something around 20-25 wickets @ 30-33 I think he'd have done a commendable job.

 

[Burgey]

If he takes 25 wickets he'd be close to the leading wicket taker on either side, and probably the most successful finger spinner to tour here in decades. Hope for our sake he isn't .

 

[Top_Cat]

Yeah that's it, 25 wickets from any visiting bowler will win their side the series comfortably.

Besides, calling this line-up the weakest Ashes batting line-up in decades is a bit much. Certainly, not as good as the past two home Ashes series' but I'd happily put the current line-up at least equal to the '98/'99 line-up of;

Slater
Taylor
Langer
Waugh
Waugh
Lehmann/Ponting
Heals

Doubly so in Aussie conditions, comfortably above the 94/95 and 1991 teams and well in advance of just about all Aussis teas in the 80's. The above players were more consistent and less prone to collapse but they were less likely to top 500 too. Maybe the worst in 'a' decade but that's as far as you can go, tbh.

 

[Sir Alex]

Yeah that's it, 25 wickets from any visiting bowler will win their side the series comfortably.

Besides, calling this line-up the weakest Ashes batting line-up in decades is a bit much. Certainly, not as good as the past two home Ashes series' but I'd happily put the current line-up at least equal to the '98/'99 line-up of;

Slater
Taylor
Langer
Waugh
Waugh
Lehmann/Ponting
Heals

Doubly so in Aussie conditions, comfortably above the 94/95 and 1991 teams and well in advance of just about all Aussis teas in the 80's. The above players were more consistent and less prone to collapse but they were less likely to top 500 too. Maybe the worst in 'a' decade but that's as far as you can go, tbh.

Waugh and Taylor with over 100 matches experience, Junior Waugh with 80+ tests and a rapidly improving Ponting plus Slater averaging in upper 40s from 40 plus tests? I beg to differ considering the general state of pitches and the class of that lineup.

I do rate Ponting, Hussey but they are on the wane. Watson is still largely unproven against better attacks, Katich is solid but never the guy to make the big hundreds, and you have Clarke who is perhaps the best on form now but is still way behind someone like Steve Waugh in 1998.

If Australia were possessing such an lineup now, they'd be runaway favorites imho.

 

[Burgey]

Waugh and Taylor with over 100 matches experience, Junior Waugh with 80+ tests and a rapidly improving Ponting plus Slater averaging in upper 40s from 40 plus tests? I beg to differ considering the general state of pitches and the class of that lineup.

I do rate Ponting, Hussey but they are on the wane. Watson is still largely unproven against better attacks, Katich is solid but never the guy to make the big hundreds, and you have Clarke who is perhaps the best on form now but is still way behind someone like Steve Waugh in 1998.

If Australia were possessing such an lineup now, they'd be runaway favorites imho.

WRT Watson though, who has a better pace attack than Pakistan? Maybe SA, though tbf SA can catch too

 

[Sir Alex]

WRT Watson though, who has a better pace attack than Pakistan? Maybe SA, though tbf SA can catch too

I'd rate India's and SA's attacks which toured there better than Pakistan's. Pakistan basically had just Asif and a rookie, and the former did not impress except for one innings and the latter tbf could hardly shoulder the entire burden on his 17 yr old shoulders.

 

[flibbertyjibber]

I'd rate India's and SA's attacks which toured there better than Pakistan's. Pakistan basically had just Asif and a rookie, and the former did not impress except for one innings and the latter tbf could hardly shoulder the entire burden on his 17 yr old shoulders.

Pakistan were without Gul weren't they due to injury?

He could be useful in England with Asif,wouldn't surprise me if they skittled both the Aussies and England for less than 200 at least once this summer as they are quality bowlers who will exploit the conditions.

 

[GIMH]

Anyone mentioned our stronger lower order yet? No, okay, there we go, I just did

And yeah yeah, Johnson has a Test match ton. But let's be honest. If we have Anderson & Onions at 10 & 11 you will NEVER bowl us out twice! And Swann at 9, he's better than Michael Clarke.

The more I think about it, the easier this series will be. 4-0 England my tip.

 

[flibbertyjibber]

4-0 England my tip.

Is the other one going to be rained off?

 

[Burgey]

anyone mentioned our stronger lower order yet? No, okay, there we go, i just did

and yeah yeah, johnson has a test match ton. But let's be honest. If we have anderson & onions at 10 & 11 you will never bowl us out twice! And swann at 9, he's better than michael clarke.

The more i think about it, the easier this series will be. 4-0 england my tip.

wac

 

[pasag]

Things better than this English side part 1

Black Jellybeans

 

[Burgey]

Black Jellybeans

Part 2

Ebola

 

[pasag]

Things better than this English side part 2

Richmond Tigers

 

[pasag]

Things better than this English side part 3

myki

 

[Burgey]

Things better than this England team (cont'd)

Nickelback

 

[pasag]

Nickelback

Harsh.

 

[pasag]

Things better than this English side part 4

The ending of I am Legend

 

[Burgey]

Harsh.

Only on a CW Ashes thread is comparing the opposition unfavourably with the Ebola virus OK, but not so with Nickelback.

Win.

 

[Jayzamann]

Richmond Tigers

Too far.

 

[Top_Cat]

Waugh and Taylor with over 100 matches experience, Junior Waugh with 80+ tests and a rapidly improving Ponting plus Slater averaging in upper 40s from 40 plus tests? I beg to differ considering the general state of pitches and the class of that lineup.

This is (yet again, I might add) an example of where looking back at stats/scorecards years after the fact misses so much. For example, the 'rapidly improving' Ponting was dropped for Lehmann after the 3rd Test in Adelaide after trying to hit his way into form. Additionally, Langer was one bad knock away from being dropped himself before his big ton in Adelaide. Quick Cricinfo check shows he was averaging mid-20's in Tests before that knock.

The rest is a matter of opinion and I usually hate doing player-by-player but in my view, at the time;

Taylor >>>>>> Watto (obv)
Slater = Katich (seriously, look at how many 80's and 90's they've got between them! In terms of not scoring tons, the they were separated at birth)
Ponting >>>>>>>>>>>>> Langer circa '98
Huss > M Waugh
Clarke < S Waugh
Norf >> Lehmann/Ponting circa '98/'99 (sorry Boof)
Haddin > Heals (overall, Haddin >>> Heals but Healy was in good touch then)

Overall, even if you rate M Waugh above Huss, it's at least even and I tend to think the current line-up has the edge having, y'know, actually watched the series. Either way, even if they were worse, it's a bloody tough line-up to throw them down at. No matter what, Swan won't be getting any cheap wickets in Australia.