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Joel Garner vs. Dennis Lillee (Tests only)

Who was better?


  • Total voters
    102
Joel Garner,no comparison.Joel Garner kissed success all over the cricketing world & on all type of wickets.Whereas Dennis "Greentop Bully" Lillee,despite his very good stats failed badly on asian wickets & hence don't deserved to be rated better than those who were successful there because a fast bowler's abilitiesare tested in asia(non-supportive wickets) & a spinner's abilities are tested outside asia(non-supportive wickets).
 
Garner's gun, but not really comparable to Lillee IMO. Lillee is one of the best of all time, arguably the best of them all. Is lauded by practically all and sundry as the complete fast bowler.
Lillee didn't have a good yorker & the most complete bowler ever is Imran Khan who fully mastered himself in bowling all type of deliveries.
 

Sir Alex

Banned
@stephen,

Great post, despite the disagreement on WSC which is something I'll have to live with rest of my life.

As with any other greats, like Warne vs Murali, Sachin vs Lara, etc, stats offer insights into their respective careers, but what to be taken as the 'clincher' is left to each one's subjectivity.

For me, Garner makes it just because despite being in a 'tough boys club' where he had to face max competition from within the team, managed to have a good record in all places he played. He was also magnificiently consistent, but by some quirk of fate, never really 'converted' his four fors into fivefors, never had a 'spell' that the world would remember like Holding's greatest over, or the magic of Marshall. But the fact that he managed to pick about as many wickets per match as that great Mcgrath, shows he did his job.

That said, I don't want to show off my ignorance further and put the caveat that am as novice as a netophile could be in cricketing matters relating to their era, and wish if some experts here, who have had the privilege of experiencing their careers first hand could throw more light. That said. I feel Garner is the more underrated of the two.
 

stephen

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
@stephen,

Great post, despite the disagreement on WSC which is something I'll have to live with rest of my life.

As with any other greats, like Warne vs Murali, Sachin vs Lara, etc, stats offer insights into their respective careers, but what to be taken as the 'clincher' is left to each one's subjectivity.

For me, Garner makes it just because despite being in a 'tough boys club' where he had to face max competition from within the team, managed to have a good record in all places he played. He was also magnificiently consistent, but by some quirk of fate, never really 'converted' his four fors into fivefors, never had a 'spell' that the world would remember like Holding's greatest over, or the magic of Marshall. But the fact that he managed to pick about as many wickets per match as that great Mcgrath, shows he did his job.

That said, I don't want to show off my ignorance further and put the caveat that am as novice as a netophile could be in cricketing matters relating to their era, and wish if some experts here, who have had the privilege of experiencing their careers first hand could throw more light. That said. I feel Garner is the more underrated of the two.
Thanks :)

My father loved watching Garner bowl, despite hating the West Indian team of that era. He also tells me about how good of a catcher Garner was in the gully, never missing a catch. I have a lot of respect for him as a cricketer.

Incidentally, this discussion sparked my new Fast Bowler Survivor competition, just to see who the majority like the best :).
 

Jono

Virat Kohli (c)
@ Ikki, its unfair when you say everyone claimed Lillee was more complete than Garner and that must count for something, when you openly dismiss claims that Tendulkar was a more complete batsman than Ponting, which is the dominant view among experts and fellow players.

No, I am not making this into Sachin vs. Ricky, rather my point is that you can't pick and choose when the general thoughts of peers and experts is relevant and when its not.
 
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stephen

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
@ Ikki, its unfair when you say everyone claimed Lillee was more complete than Garner and that must count for something, when you openly dismiss claims that Tendulkar was a more complete batsman than Sachin, which is the dominant view among experts and fellow players.

No, I am not making this into Sachin vs. Ricky, rather my point is that you can't pick and choose when the general thoughts of peers and experts is relevant and when its not.
lol
 

vcs

Request Your Custom Title Now!
@ Ikki, its unfair when you say everyone claimed Lillee was more complete than Garner and that must count for something, when you openly dismiss claims that Tendulkar was a more complete batsman than Sachin, which is the dominant view among experts and fellow players.

No, I am not making this into Sachin vs. Ricky, rather my point is that you can't pick and choose when the general thoughts of peers and experts is relevant and when its not.
Who is this Tendulkar chap, must be really good if he is better than Sachin. :ph34r:
 

Ikki

Hall of Fame Member
@ Ikki, its unfair when you say everyone claimed Lillee was more complete than Garner and that must count for something, when you openly dismiss claims that Tendulkar was a more complete batsman than Ponting, which is the dominant view among experts and fellow players.

No, I am not making this into Sachin vs. Ricky, rather my point is that you can't pick and choose when the general thoughts of peers and experts is relevant and when its not.
Notice I never said: Lillee is better than Garner because other people thought so? That's kind of the point. Universal acknowledge is certainly a factor, but it is not the be all and end all. I have a problem with it in cases like Sobers' where I think his bowling is ridiculously exaggerated at times. So obviously, I have to see a logical reason behind the praise.

Although, to explain my own position further: I didn't see Lillee's career in it's entirety as I have Ricky and Sachin's. If I had seen Lillee and Garner bowl and still thought Garner superior I'd hold that opinion, if I really felt it to be true, regardless if many others disagreed with me because I had seen them for myself.

With Sachin I also feel there is a bit too much misplaced praise due to the fact that he was a prodigy, whereas I don't feel so with Lillee. He really was absolutely awesome against the best and the only thing that counts against him is the fact that WSC took place and he played less in the sub-continent. In terms of ability, I don't see any reason for him not to have succeeded there.
 
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Joel Garner,no comparison.Joel Garner kissed success all over the cricketing world & on all type of wickets.Whereas Dennis "Greentop Bully" Lillee,despite his very good stats failed badly on asian wickets & hence don't deserved to be rated better than those who were successful there because a fast bowler's abilitiesare tested in asia(non-supportive wickets) & a spinner's abilities are tested outside asia(non-supportive wickets).
Exactly!!!!And you have people here raving about his ability to succeed in the SC when he failed miserably there :laugh:
 

Jono

Virat Kohli (c)
Notice I never said: Lillee is better than Garner because other people thought so? That's kind of the point. Universal acknowledge is certainly a factor, but it is not the be all and end all. I have a problem with it in cases like Sobers' where I think his bowling is ridiculously exaggerated at times. So obviously, I have to see a logical reason behind the praise.

Although, to explain my own position further: I didn't see Lillee's career in it's entirety as I have Ricky and Sachin's. If I had seen Lillee and Garner bowl and still thought Garner superior I'd hold that opinion, if I really felt it to be true, regardless if many others disagreed with me because I had seen them for myself.

With Sachin I also feel there is a bit too much misplaced praise due to the fact that he was a prodigy, whereas I don't feel so with Lillee. He really was absolutely awesome against the best and the only thing that counts against him is the fact that WSC took place and he played less in the sub-continent. In terms of ability, I don't see any reason for him not to have succeeded there.
I disagree with your view regarding Sachin, but that was a pretty good explanation.

Cheers.
 

Lillian Thomson

Hall of Fame Member
It actually took five pages before Mr Singh showed up to slag off Dennis Lillee based on one tour of Pakistan and to tell the world how wonderful Imran Khan is....very late by his standards.
Dennis Lillee should win the poll as he's one of the top five pace bowlers of all time. Joel Garner is..........................very tall.
 

Top_Cat

Request Your Custom Title Now!
haha, nice work. Saved by YT!

It actually took five pages before Mr Singh showed up to slag off Dennis Lillee based on one tour of Pakistan and to tell the world how wonderful Imran Khan is....very late by his standards.
Dennis Lillee should win the poll as he's one of the top five pace bowlers of all time. Joel Garner is..........................very tall.
Don't trust your opinion, tbh, as one who actually saw both play live. All hail statistics.
 

Slifer

International Captain
Voted Lillee. For his impact on the game but could have so easily gone with Garner. And for those of u who think that there is no comparison between the 2 seriously u dont know what ur talking about.
 

slippyslip

U19 12th Man
Lillee. Garner was not even the best West Indian bowler of his generation. If it was Lillee vs Marshall then ... I dont know.

For a lot of Lillee's later career he had very little in the way of bowling support.

Reading this thread I'm SHOCKED and SURPRISED how people from a certain region just love to vote against Australian players. You could have an Australian bowler with 250+ wickets up against some kid from their local under 10 team in a poll and they would still vote against the Australian.
 

Teja.

Global Moderator
Lillee. Garner was not even the best West Indian bowler of his generation. If it was Lillee vs Marshall then ... I dont know.

For a lot of Lillee's later career he had very little in the way of bowling support.

Reading this thread I'm SHOCKED and SURPRISED how people from a certain region just love to vote against Australian players. You could have an Australian bowler with 250+ wickets up against some kid from their local under 10 team in a poll and they would still vote against the Australian.
What the hell? Just because Marshall is better than Garner doesn't automatically mean he is the only West Indian bowler who can be compared to Lillee. Both Garner and Lillee are fantastic bowlers and the comparison between them is pretty even. I could understand a vote going either way. Please don't blindly accuse people of Bias and insult the great bowler, that was the big bird.
 

slippyslip

U19 12th Man
What the hell? Just because Marshall is better than Garner doesn't automatically mean he is the only West Indian bowler who can be compared to Lillee. Both Garner and Lillee are fantastic bowlers and the comparison between them is pretty even. I could understand a vote going either way. Please don't blindly accuse people of Bias and insult the great bowler, that was the big bird.
Again my last sentence bears truth.
 

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