Famous Incidents of Gamesmanship/Cheating

[Jarquis]

Well basically I just came across the story surrouding Muhammad Ali's fight against Henry Cooper and the broken vial and was wondering if anybody else knew any information surrounding the incident?

Also a thread to discuss how far is too far? For incidents such as that delivery from Trevor Chappel or when England placed every fielder on the boundary against the West Indies.
Are there other similar incidents where people have taken advantage of the rules?
Are there any sports where it is still possible to do such things? Where the rules haven't been ammended?

 

[sledger]

Shahid Afridi.

 

[Pothas]

Singapore 2008 GP and Bloodgate with Harlequins the worst in recent times.

 

[Jarquis]

Yeah, had Tom Williams and Piquet in mind.

 

[Burgey]

Ali made a career of it. The cut glove with Cooper in their first fight (though that was Dundee's genius - Ali didn't know where he was at the time); his antics with Liston; he riled Frazier so badly he had a red mist in front of him when they fought; the rope-a-dope in Zaire; his predictions.

As George Plimpton said - What a fighter he was, and what a man.

Association Football goes mad with it all the time of course - diving etc. Also Tom Raudonikis using the ref as a shapherd to run past Sterlo and score in the 81 GF was genius.

 

[Jarquis]

Rope-a-dope in Zaire?

 

[Burgey]

Yeah mate, against Foreman - Ali sprouted about how he would move around, be too fast for Foreman. Instead he laid on the ropes in front of him and let Foreman pound away for about 6 rounds til he punched himself out.

Anyone who watches it knows it was about the most counter-intuitive thing he could have done - Foreman was an amazingly powerful puncher - would be the equivalent of standing in front of Mike Tyson and letting him hit you. He'd broken blokes' arms by hitting them, he was that powerful. Turned Frazier, who'd beaten Ali, into a basketball - knocked him down 6 times in two rounds. A terrifying individual back then.

Here he is destroying Frazier - was a huge underdog going into that fight too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UI8EQTa1cbM&feature=related

If you get a chance to watch the fight, see how Ali deflects most of the punches and hardly gets hit, while Foreman wails away at him constantly. And Ali had this ability, cos his hands were so fast for a heavyweight, to see oopenings and fight off the ropes.

And Ali's talking to him all the time too - "That all you've got George? I thought you could hit. You're not bustin' popcorn George", Foreman was going mad with rage - by the 7th he was rat arsed - in the 8th, Ali dropped him.

Dundee said Ali did everything wrong, but he did the wrong things right. Sums up that fight perfectly really.

Rounds 4 & 5 are here mate - you can see Ali talking to Foreman and letting him hit him. Foreman said years later that as he was hitting Ali he was winning, but he knew in his mind he was losing. Mind games at their best.

YouTube - Muhammad Ali Vs George Foreman Rounds 4&5

And here's Round 8 - a thing of beauty this knockout

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10ZIxV9KWgY&feature=fvw

 

[Sanz]

Had never seen Boxing, but this is freaking Amazing. What a fighter Ali was. Real Real Champ.

 

[Jono]

You seen the documentary "When We Were Kings" Burgey?

Loved it, great review on the lead up to the fight, and the fight itself.

 

[pasag]

Yeah, one of my favourite movies.

 

[_Ed_]

 

[wpdavid]

Yeah mate, against Foreman - Ali sprouted about how he would move around, be too fast for Foreman. Instead he laid on the ropes in front of him and let Foreman pound away for about 6 rounds til he punched himself out.

Anyone who watches it knows it was about the most counter-intuitive thing he could have done - Foreman was an amazingly powerful puncher - would be the equivalent of standing in front of Mike Tyson and letting him hit you. He'd broken blokes' arms by hitting them, he was that powerful. Turned Frazier, who'd beaten Ali, into a basketball - knocked him down 6 times in two rounds. A terrifying individual back then.

Here he is destroying Frazier - was a huge underdog going into that fight too.

YouTube - 1973 kingston Joe Frazier vs George Foreman complete 2-2

If you get a chance to watch the fight, see how Ali deflects most of the punches and hardly gets hit, while Foreman wails away at him constantly. And Ali had this ability, cos his hands were so fast for a heavyweight, to see oopenings and fight off the ropes.

And Ali's talking to him all the time too - "That all you've got George? I thought you could hit. You're not bustin' popcorn George", Foreman was going mad with rage - by the 7th he was rat arsed - in the 8th, Ali dropped him.

Dundee said Ali did everything wrong, but he did the wrong things right. Sums up that fight perfectly really.

Rounds 4 & 5 are here mate - you can see Ali talking to Foreman and letting him hit him. Foreman said years later that as he was hitting Ali he was winning, but he knew in his mind he was losing. Mind games at their best.

YouTube - Muhammad Ali Vs George Foreman Rounds 4&5

And here's Round 8 - a thing of beauty this knockout

YouTube - Ali vs Foreman - Round 8

Thanks for all that Burgey - really enjoyed reading and watching them. Ali knocking out Foreman still sends shivers down my spine. Perhaps because I can still hear Harry Carpenter's commentary of the moment - a combination of astonishment, awe, relief and sheer happiness. The emotion of the moment is absolutely tangible - and Carpenter sounds as close to tears of joy as I have ever heard a commentator. There was those who genuinely feared for Ali's life going in against Foreman at 32, and this was one of the sporting moments of my lifetime. Heavyweight boxing mattered in those days, in a way that it probably never will again.

 

[wpdavid]

Well basically I just came across the story surrouding Muhammad Ali's fight against Henry Cooper and the broken vial and was wondering if anybody else knew any information surrounding the incident?

Also a thread to discuss how far is too far? For incidents such as that delivery from Trevor Chappel or when England placed every fielder on the boundary against the West Indies.
Are there other similar incidents where people have taken advantage of the rules?

Some would mention Bodyline.

 

[Burgey]

You seen the documentary "When We Were Kings" Burgey?

Loved it, great review on the lead up to the fight, and the fight itself.

Yeah mate, a great film. Love Norman Mailer and Plimpton's input. Two fine gentlemen - I'm a massive Mailer fan - thought he was a great author - The Fight, his book on Zaire, is a cracker, despite a few self indulgent moments early on. Commend it to you if you've not read it.

Ali, well I'm biased, but I love that man. I appreciate what he did as an athlete, but what he did as an acivist, in his own simple way, was incredible. I wept like a child when I shook his hand in 2000, just stood there and cried. Poor bugger shuffling around, could hardly speak, but he just had the most amazing presence of anyone I've ever seen in my life.

And yeah David, I very much doubt heavyweight boxing will ever mean as much again. I held out hopes when Lewis came through, but it wasn't to be. What an era the mid-to-late 60s-70s was - Patterson, Liston, Ali, Cooper, Ernie Terrell was a good fighter, George Chauvalo, Jerry Quarry, Jimmy Ellis, Frazier, Foreman, Norton, Holmes, Ernie Shavers.

Those guys were fantastic. Best heavyweight era ever imo, and by some margin.

 

[GIMH]

 

[Burgey]

Finally, someone other than Simon Jones admits it.

I get to England, I'm going to Trafalgar Square with a bag of those things, and I'll take a photo of me there, giving the bird to all the England posters on here, then I'll put it in the What Do You Look Like thread.

Won't do me any good, but I'll feel better for it!

 

[Indipper]

Take one of you with one of those Bearskin Guard types. See if your love for the truth can't get you a bayonet wound.

 

[BoyBrumby]

Sixteen replies and no mention of Maradona? For shame CW.

&, on cheating Argentine scumbags, Simeone gets Beckham sent off in 98. **** even points at Beckham before he decides to fall over.

Anyway, to prove cheating isn't just something foreigners do, this is a top bit of undetected skullbuggery from Leicester's Neil Back in the 2002 Heineken Cup final. With the clock running down Munster had an attacking scrum near The Tigers' try line and when Peter Stringer goes to put the ball in Backy taps it out of his hands and under the welcoming feet of the Leicester rake Dorian West. YouTube.

 

[Burgey]

Brumbers, I thought Tonka got England's revenge at the subsequent WC in Brazil when Mike Bassett was managing England...

As for bayonet wounds, I nearly got one last time I was in London. Was walking around trying to get to Buckingham Palace and had my head buried in a map.. Saw a good short cut on the map - walk past St James Palace and Clarence House. Was going fine, saw St James', so had my head down in the map trying to work things out when I literally walked into one of those blokes who was on a gate.

They were pretty good about it.. Asked me what I thought I was doing. Rather than my standard "what's it to you, Pommie?" I decided it prudent to explain. The London Bobby who'd come over to the little scene gave me an alternative route via Green Park which didn't involve my going to prison on the way.

Should say my last visit was the week the Iraq War started in 03, so the lads were quite, well, alert really. Scared the crap out of me for a moment I confess. I hadn't realised I as going to be walking outside the Queen Mum's front door in a pair of jeans, a T shirt, a 3 day growth and, probably most disturbingly for them, a largish back pack.

 

[Jono]

&, on cheating Argentine scumbags, Simeone gets Beckham sent off in 98. **** even points at Beckham before he decides to fall over.

Holy ****. That is disgraceful.

Beckham's reaction when the red comes out is amazing. I can't believe he took it so well. Bloody calm considering the circumstances.