Worlds greatest team

[Shri]

Has everyone got GI Joe on ignore?

No responses to his posts in the thread.

 

[Malleeboy]

Even at their peak (and Australia near our nadir), I always have memories of the WI being troubled on a spinning SCG pitch.

 

[GotSpin]

At least he actually faced them monsters with the bat even if it was in training!! , but seriously Sobers played against better opposition G-S that can't be disputed, plus we know much more about the pitches in Sobers era than we do about the pitches in Bradman's time.

It can be disputed considering the best bowlers in that era were all West Indian.

 

[WindieWeathers]

Presuming all players are taken at their peak to play at this game, then the ICC peak rating is one way to judge players across era’s at their comparative peaks (Batting always listed before bowling, number in brackets is ranking….

Greenidge 844 (1)
Haynes 785 (2)
Headley 915 (2)
Richards 938 (1) 180
Lara 911 (1)
Sobers 938 (1) 715 (4)
Dujon 703 (8)
Marshall 375 910 (1)
Holding 259 860 (1)
Gibbs 133 897 (1)
Ambrose 229 912 (1)

Lawry 878 (1)
Hayden 935 (1)
Bradman 961 (1)
N Harvey 921 (1)
Ponting 942 (1)
Miller 681 (8) 862 (1)
Gilchrist 874 (1)
Lindwall 433 897 (1)
Warne 348 905 (1)
O’Rielly 212 901 (1)
McGrath 123 914 (1)

XV Aussie squad S Waugh 895/397 (1) G Chappell 883/234 (1) A Davidson 526/908 (1) Lillee 252/884 (1)

Lawry won’t win the style points but this is the WI were playing an immovable rock at the top of the order to blunt their attack won’t hurt, especially given the stroke makers below him. Trumper is a great but from when the game was very different. (The same case for Spofforth)

The selected team is for Australian or neutral conditions.
If playing in the WI, and presuming they produce pace friendly wicket to blunt Australia’s spin advantage, then either drop O’Rielly for Davidson at 8, Warne then comes in at 10. Or drop O’Reilly put S Waugh at 6 to add grit to the lower order (and as the fifth part-time bowler) and bat Miller at 8.

Australia’s advantages…

1) Bradman
2) Miller as the fifth bowler is the equal of Holding. Australia would have 5 genuine great bowlers to the WI 4.
3) Gilchrist above Dujon at batting.
4) Spin bowling
5) Aussie opening pair statistically a class above WI.
6) A stronger tail

WI advantages ….

1) Sobers batting better then Miller’s


I’d back Australia 3-2, if for nothing more then being able to draw great players from over a much longer time frame, and that the Don.

What is this about your opening batsman? they aren't better than Greenidge and Walcott man come on, and your wasting your time if you think your pacers are anywhere near the same level as ours, it's not even close, Gibbs was a very good spinner too so in him and Sobers we'd have all bases covered in our bowling attack, i just don't see any batting line-up coping with our bowling attack for long spells, non at all.

 

[WindieWeathers]

It can be disputed considering the best bowlers in that era were all West Indian.

There's an argument that they were the best bowlers of ANY era G-S so it's hardly Sobers fault , that doesn't mean the other sides didn't have good bowlers does it? i'm not convinced Bradman faced many above average bowlers tbh.

 

[G.I.Joe]

Has everyone got GI Joe on ignore?

No responses to his posts in the thread.

Thats because it was question answered and [/thread] as early as post #11 tbh. Rest of the thread is merely people increasing their post counts

 

[Ikki]

Ponting and hayden are the most over rated batsman in the history of cricket.The fact that Malcolm marshall dismissed Gavaskar many times on the flat tracks of India, Ponting and hayden would have been his bunny.

Come on mods, this has to be trolling. In one thread he is arguing against India's pitches being flat and here he is using them to bash the two Aussies. This guy has done nothing but incite heated arguments.

 

[Malleeboy]

What is this about your opening batsman? they aren't better than Greenidge and Walcott man come on, and your wasting your time if you think your pacers are anywhere near the same level as ours, it's not even close, Gibbs was a very good spinner too so in him and Sobers we'd have all bases covered in our bowling attack, i just don't see any batting line-up coping with our bowling attack for long spells, non at all.

Ok changing the WI lineup...

Walcott and Greenidge = Hayden and Lawry

However
Bradman > then any WI batsman
Miller > Sobers as 5th bowler
Gilchrist > Dujon as batsman

As for the pace attack, it isn't me saying that our pace attack is as good as yours its the ICC statistics.

 

[GotSpin]

There's an argument that they were the best bowlers of ANY era G-S so it's hardly Sobers fault , that doesn't mean the other sides didn't have good bowlers does it? i'm not convinced Bradman faced many above average bowlers tbh.

You're not only underestimating bowlers during that era but the impact that Bradman would have had on them.

I just had a quick search and stumbled on some interesting statistics - They are not mine I just found them compiled. They clearly illustrate the effects of having to bowl to Bradman

1. Bedser
Career : 24.9
Without Bradman : 21.3

2. Larwood
Career : 28.4
Without Bradman : 23.2

3. Voce
Career : 27.9
Without Bradman : 28.1

4. Verity
Career : 24.4
Without Bradman : 22.4

5. Mankad
Career : 32.3
Without Bradman : 30.7

6. Constantine
Career : 30.1
Without Bradman : 26.8

7. Allen
Career : 29.4
Without Bradman : 21.9

8. Tate
Career : 26.1
Without Bradman : 22.9

9. Bowes
Career : 22.3
Without Bradman : 20.5

10. Quinn
Career : 32.7
Without Bradman : 28.8

 

[GotSpin]

I do profess not to have a massive knowledge of all bowlers from that era. But there were clearly a number of above-average bowlers during the time of Bradman. He was just too good for them and inflated averages reflect that

 

[WindieWeathers]

Ok changing the WI lineup...

Walcott and Greenidge = Hayden and Lawry

However
Bradman > then any WI batsman
Miller > Sobers as 5th bowler
Gilchrist > Dujon as batsman

As for the pace attack, it isn't me saying that our pace attack is as good as yours its the ICC statistics.

So i guess

Haynes>>> your openers

Lara>>> Ponting

Viv>>>>> Chapell

Sobers= the best cricketer on the whole field.

Marshall>>> better than any pacer in your entire line-up.

You really are having an almighty laugh if you think "statistics" is enough to put your bowling line-up anywhere near ours!!

 

[WindieWeathers]

I do profess not to have a massive knowledge of all bowlers from that era. But there were clearly a number of above-average bowlers during the time of Bradman. He was just too good for them and inflated averages reflect that

And you think the likes of Lara, Tendulker, Viv and Sobers etc wouldn't have had the same success against the bowlers you listed? how many genuine great bowlers are on that list? i don't see many, plus you still haven't taken into account the quality of the pitches, back then they could have been conducive to the batters, you couple that with average bowlers then you have perfect conditions for Bradman to revel in.

 

[G.I.Joe]

And you think the likes of Lara, Tendulker, Viv and Sobers etc wouldn't have had the same success against the bowlers you listed? how many genuine great bowlers are on that list? i don't see many, plus you still haven't taken into account the quality of the pitches, back then they could have been conducive to the batters, you couple that with average bowlers then you have perfect conditions for Bradman to revel in.

If the pitches were conducive to batting, and they had to bowl at Bradman, and they still averaged 28 or thereabouts, I'd say they're anything but average bowlers.

Genuine question - who were the prominent bowlers that bowled at Sobers?

 

[GotSpin]

And you think the likes of Lara, Tendulker, Viv and Sobers etc wouldn't have had the same success against the bowlers you listed? how many genuine great bowlers are on that list? i don't see many, plus you still haven't taken into account the quality of the pitches, back then they could have been conducive to the batters, you couple that with average bowlers then you have perfect conditions for Bradman to revel in.

Many out of that list are considered bowling greats.

I'm sure lara and co would have had some success, but not to the extent that bowling averages would be effected by 3-4 runs from just one batsmen.

 

[GotSpin]

If the pitches were conducive to batting, and they had to bowl at Bradman, and they still averaged 28 or thereabouts, I'd say they're anything but average bowlers.

It's fascinating to see bowlers who would have averaged in the low 20s ending up with much worse averages due solely to one individual.

 

[Ikki]

I do profess not to have a massive knowledge of all bowlers from that era. But there were clearly a number of above-average bowlers during the time of Bradman. He was just too good for them and inflated averages reflect that

They were clearly very good and comparable. The road block anyone critiquing Bradman's record hits is that even if the opposition was not the best of all time (i.e. Attacks of then 90s) they were nowhere near that bad to allow someone to average almost 100 against them. That is absurd. The WIndies attack may be better, but they're still going to get dominated.

 

[satyam]

Genuine question - who were the prominent bowlers that bowled at Sobers?

Bowling records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | Cricinfo.com

 

[nick-o]

The only time he faced the best bowlers during his playing time was a nets session since they were on his team.

At least he actually faced them monsters with the bat even if it was in training!!

Think there's some misunderstanding about who the best bowlers were in Sobers' day:

Bowling records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | Cricinfo.com

only 3 of the top 25 on that list are from WI.

 

[Migara]

If Sobers had Imran's record with the ball or vice versa (Imran had Sobers batting record), there'd be a seriously case for either being as good a cricketer as Bradman

Would be better than Bradman EASILY if it was the case.

 

[WindieWeathers]

Genuine question - who were the prominent bowlers that bowled at Sobers?

Here's a list of some of them..

Bowling records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | Cricinfo.com

only 3 of the top 25 on that list are from WI.

I'd say there's some decent names on that list!!.