Who Is The Second Greatest Batsman Ever?

[Himannv]

Bucknor has made quite a few errors over the years but I dont see the point of picking them out in a thread about the second greatest batsman of all time.

Surprised that Hammond and Headley didn't get more votes tbh.

 

[Zinzan]

No surprises really, I think the result of the poll clearly demonstrates what we already knew, that being that there is no clear no.2, especially when one considers the top candidate, Tendulkar has just 20odd % of the vote.

 

[Burgey]

Bucknor has made quite a few errors over the years but I dont see the point of picking them out in a thread about the second greatest batsman of all time.

Indeed. Batting on to 700 in Sydney 03 didn't help their cause time-wise either tbh.

 

[Himannv]

No surprises really, I think the result of the poll clearly demonstrates what we already knew, that being that there is no clear no.2, especially when one considers the top candidate, Tendulkar has just 20odd % of the vote.

I think Chris Martin was probably a good shout considering all the support he got.

 

[honestbharani]

Stuff like the above discredits any such article, IMO

probably.. I mean, that part is not something that is right. It is an arguable thing.. But the fact is that he has been behaving stupidly with Indian players for a while and the fact that an international captain and coach were discrediting him so much in their match reports would generally mean it was some serious issue...


But then again, when Indians say it, a few here seem to think it is all over-reaction and fabrication... Reacting to facts that way makes them happy I guess..

 

[GotSpin]

probably.. I mean, that part is not something that is right. It is an arguable thing.. But the fact is that he has been behaving stupidly with Indian players for a while and the fact that an international captain and coach were discrediting him so much in their match reports would generally mean it was some serious issue...


But then again, when Indians say it, a few here seem to think it is all over-reaction and fabrication... Reacting to facts that way makes them happy I guess..

Yeah ganguly was always a well mannered and mild tempered captain wasn't he.

 

[honestbharani]

Nah, its cool. Lets all read articles that make sweeping generalisations and conclusions.

yeah... and forget about our disability to filter out the facts from them.. As I said, when an international coach and captain take such stands in their match reports and feedback, the ICC SHOULD have acted a long time back.. Then again, it is the ICC and it won't be them to react promptly over any developing situation, would it?

 

[honestbharani]

Yeah ganguly was always a well mannered and mild tempered captain wasn't he.

Nah, he was the one who sledged all and sundry and spread out brotherhood theories such as mental disintergration...

 

[GotSpin]

yeah... and forget about our disability to filter out the facts from them.. As I said, when an international coach and captain take such stands in their match reports and feedback, the ICC SHOULD have acted a long time back.. Then again, it is the ICC and it won't be them to react promptly over any developing situation, would it?

Not necessarily since Ganguly has a history of throwing temper tantrums. Just because a disgruntled captain, known for incessant complaining, files a bad match report shouldn't mean that a elite umpire should be removed.

 

[honestbharani]

Not necessarily since Ganguly has a history of throwing temper tantrums. Just because a disgruntled captain, known for incessant complaining, files a bad match report shouldn't mean that a elite umpire should be removed.

history of temper tantrums? Care to elaborate... Coz the wind could blow off the straw you are clutching at any time.. And keep the time frame to pre-2003, btw...


And btw, how about some examples of tantrums from John Wright, who is ALSO involved in these feedbacks??????

 

[honestbharani]

Not necessarily since Ganguly has a history of throwing temper tantrums. Just because a disgruntled captain, known for incessant complaining, files a bad match report shouldn't mean that a elite umpire should be removed.

And I never said he should have been removed.. How difficult is it to get a neutral enquiry going on in the background of how he moves with the Indian team and see if there are real grounds to the feelilng that he is biased against that Indian side.. Watching the game from a distance, it was OBVIOUS to not just me, but MANY Indian fans that Bucknor had something for India....

 

[GotSpin]

history of temper tantrums? Care to elaborate... Coz the wind could blow off the straw you are clutching at any time.. And keep the time frame to pre-2003, btw...


And btw, how about some examples of tantrums from John Wright, who is ALSO involved in these feedbacks??????

why should i keep the time frame to pre-2003 when the complaints he lodged were in 2003.

 

[GotSpin]

And I never said he should have been removed.. How difficult is it to get a neutral enquiry going on in the background of how he moves with the Indian team and see if there are real grounds to the feelilng that he is biased against that Indian side.. Watching the game from a distance, it was OBVIOUS to not just me, but MANY Indian fans that Bucknor had something for India....

By that sort of logic every time a decision goes against one nation some sort of bias should be assumed and said umpire being held accountable to an inquiry.

 

[honestbharani]

why should i keep the time frame to pre-2003 when the complaints he lodged were in 2003.

for the very reason that the complaints were done in 2003... Means his behaviour till then is what must be in question when discussing the complaints made in that time frame..

 

[honestbharani]

By that sort of logic every time a decision goes against one nation some sort of bias should be assumed and said umpire being held accountable to an inquiry.

It is not one decision alone... Try reading the full article and then post...

 

[GotSpin]

for the very reason that the complaints were done in 2003... Means his behaviour till then is what must be in question when discussing the complaints made in that time frame..

I'm not completely well read in his history but off the top of my head pre 2003 -

Turning up to the coin toss 4 times late in 2001
Not turning up in regular cricket uniform to the toss
taking off his shirt and waving it around at lords after a win

this is not to mention numerous references by other team mates and journalists who comment upon his bad behaviour and lack of sportsmanship. it fits that ganguly would kick up a fuss when losing a series

 

[Burgey]

probably.. I mean, that part is not something that is right. It is an arguable thing.. But the fact is that he has been behaving stupidly with Indian players for a while and the fact that an international captain and coach were discrediting him so much in their match reports would generally mean it was some serious issue...


But then again, when Indians say it, a few here seem to think it is all over-reaction and fabrication... Reacting to facts that way makes them happy I guess..

Been robbed of every series they've lost since at least 46-47 I reckon mate. Dastardly umpiring, the other side cheating.

Should be a Royal Commission into it. You can chair it. Fair and balanced.

 

[honestbharani]

Been robbed of every series they've lost since at least 46-47 I reckon mate. Dastardly umpiring, the other side cheating.

Should be a Royal Commission into it. You can chair it. Fair and balanced.

Not when you are around, burgey.. I mean, you can't be wrong or biased, can you?


And FWIW, yeah Bucknor was an angel in matches involving India...

 

[honestbharani]

I'm not completely well read in his history but off the top of my head pre 2003 -

Turning up to the coin toss 4 times late in 2001
Not turning up in regular cricket uniform to the toss
taking off his shirt and waving it around at lords after a win

this is not to mention numerous references by other team mates and journalists who comment upon his bad behaviour and lack of sportsmanship. it fits that ganguly would kick up a fuss when losing a series

Every single one of those 3 instances were responses to pretty stupid acts from his opposite numbers earlier and probably the reason no action was taken as it would action having to be taken on the stuff that started all this as well...


And as for the "numerous" people, I have not heard a single bad thing about him from folks like Murali, Lara or Sachin... They have all mentioned how genial and nice he is as a person and that he is well behaved unless he is ticked off by someone misbehaving with him.. If you think Andrew "binge" Flintoff is your be all and end all in deciding players' characteristics, then maybe you have a point...


And if you don't mind, plz do elaborate on the "numerous" and how great their own personal behaviour record was...

 

[Cevno]

BUCKNOR vs INDIA

• Steve Bucknor: Umpired in 17 India Tests, India has won four of them
1992-93: India vs South Africa, Johannesburg
With South Africa reeling at 73-5, Indians appeal for Jhonty Rhodes’ run-out. Bucknor refuses to take Third Umpire’s help. Replays show Rhodes, who went on to play a match-saving innings, was clearly short of the crease.
Result: Match drawn

1998-99: India vs Pakistan, Kolkata
Shoaib Akhtar obstructs Sachin Tendulkar as he fails to make it to the crease. Bucknor turns a blind eye and refers the matter to the TV umpire. As the red light flashes and Tendulkar walks to the dressing room, Eden erupts.
Result: Pakistan won

2003-04: India vs Australia, Brisbane
Tendulkar is given out lbw when the ball hit on a knee roll and the line was just outside the off-stump. The bowler was Jason Gillespie and India slips after a good start
Result: Match Drawn

2003-04: India vs Australia -Bucknor allegedly teases Rahul dravid .Steve Bucknor was shown on TV picking up the ball and — all the while smiling his half-smile — inspecting it closely after smelling it a couple of times.
It was then seen as an ungracious gesture from an umpire as it was exactly at the time Rahul dravid came out to bat after being accused in the previous match of applying sweet saliva on the ball.

2003-04: India vs Australia, Sydney
India is on the verge of history of a series win on the final day. Bucknor refuses a number of close leg-before decisions against the Aussies. India falls short of time. Skipper Sourav Ganguly in his post-series report to ICC gives Bucknor very poor ratings with adverse comments.
Result: Match drawn

2003-04: India vs Pakistan, Lahore
India is already on the backfoot in the series for the first time after an awful batting display. Five opportunities missed while bowling, four of them adjudicated by Bucknor. This forces Indian coach John Wright to complain to match-referee Ranjan Madugalle during the day’s play.
Result: India loses

This from the widen almanack-

The only jarring part of the day came at the start of the Indian innings, when the course of play was altered not by the players of either side, but by the incompetence of an umpire. Steve Bucknor was appalling during India's tour of Australia, and consistently so, through first the Tests and then the one-dayers. I had argued then that Bucknor's powers seem to have diminished with age - for umpiring relies on physical faculties that only get worse as the years go by - and that umpires should be regularly tested by the ICC to see if their abilities are still intact.

It is scandolous that despite the Indian team's complaints about him, based on an entire series and not a handful of stray understandable mistakes, the ICC has taken no action on this matter. John Wright, India's coach, reportedly complained to the match referee yesterday about the poor umpiring, and Bucknor gave India more reason for anguish today. After not upholding a number of good appeals during Pakistan's innings, he gave Aakash Chopra out lbw, after Chopra had inside-edged the ball. Given that Rahul Dravid was out immediately afterwards, run out without facing a ball, Bucknor's mistake had a huge impact on the game. It is unfair to Bucknor that his legacy as an umpire should be tarnished by his performance when he is clearly past the peak of his powers, and it is unfair on the players as well. (It is also unfair that he should be judged by technology that is available to everyone but him. Click here for a debate in Wisden Asia Cricket on the use of technology in umpiring.)

2003-04 Pakistan -Bucknor Gestures In Pakistan, he turned down several genuine appeals and gestured at wicket-keeper Parthiv Patel to keep quite in a manner which was humiliating. He almosts threatens parthiv in a way as if he was a principal scolding a small child after bunking a class.Parthiv becomes very nervous and is consoled by his team mates.John wright shown to be very perturbed by this.

2005-India Vs paksitan,Eden gardens ,Kolkata- Standing in his 100th test match,Bucknor makes one of the wierdest decisions in the History of crikcket against his nemesis no 1. Sachin Tendulkar.First in diminishing lights which were later shown to be below pre set levels on the previous day,he refuses to offer India the light despite several complaints by Tendulkar and dravid and the Pakistani bowling their fast bowlers and bouncers repeatedly.India are in a precarious position and these two are battling it out with a over 100 run partnership.
Then on one delivery from razzaq ,a Tendulkar plays and misses by a mile.Razzaq goes up to tendulkar and glares at him ,then akmal and razzaq suddenly appeal meekly Tendulkar starts to move away from the stups to get himself ready for the next ball.But suddenly Bucknor raises his finger.Everyone is shocked including Akmal .Tendulkar goes out in tears on 52 filled with anger. Even the pakistani's are seen laughing at the decision.
A senior member of the team says later that" When playing against bucknor every bowler feels world class" and that it was not a coincidence that Bucknor has officated in 19 matches involving India and they have won 4.
There are stories that Tendulkar was very upset and had to be stopped from marching up to the match referee.
Here is the cricinfo report of the incident by a pakistani journalist--

The twilight twist
With gloom settling in and bad light almost certain to be offered, enter India's favourite umpire, celebrating his 100th test. Sachin Tendulkar and Rahul Dravid were in the midst of a rescue act, quickly transforming into a match-turning one. Tendulkar had just completed his half-century, with a rasping square-drive off Abdul Razzaq.

Razzaq, in the middle of a disciplined and varied spell, started testing Tendulkar with short balls. In his next over, the first ball was again short, it went past Tendulkar's outside edge and swung away after going past his bat. As replays confirmed, the ball missed the outside edge by some distance. Kamran Akmal dived to take the catch and appealed meekly, as did Razzaq, protractedly. Nothing came from Steve Bucknor, Tendulkar moved away from the crease and as Razzaq's appeal withered, Bucknor suddenly raised his finger. Tendulkar jumped as if facing another short ball, stunned, Pakistan went ecstatic and the match took, on a day of twists, one final controversial one. A case perhaps for offering light to the umpire?

Result-India won.

His antics in the 2007-08 Aus series are pretty well known.And pretty well documented.


Dilip sardesai on Bucknor in 2004

'Steve Bucknor is useless': Rediff Sports


This thread is perhaps not appropiate for discussion on Bucknor ,nor i am to keen on discussing it now.
But the ignorant and trying to be clever attitude of some posters in this thread made me make this post. Hopefully any disucssion would be in a new thread as this thread does not have any link to this seperate disucssion.