Who Is The Second Greatest Batsman Ever?

[Pratters]

really pratters? i am willing to give tendulkar the nod in ODIs. as a test batsman, i think viv should be comfortably ahead of sachin. he revived the art of attacking batsmanship 60 years after trumper and jessop hit their last boundaries in test cricket. gilchrist, jayasuriya, hayden, sehwag, pietersen, de silva and dhoni are all his bastards.

Wasn't consistent enough.

 

[Maximus0723]

um no to Viv in tests.

Look at Viv's avg when his team wins or draws. Then look at Sachins. What good if you bat fast bat can't get the right result.

Viv avg when WI win=52, draw=60
Sachin avg when India win=67, draw=65

 

[Ikki]

It probably has to do with the fact that Viv won proportionately more matches and hence it will be closer to his career average. Viv has won over half the matches he's ever played; Sachin less than a third.

 

[The Sean]

um no to Viv in tests.

Look at Viv's avg when his team wins or draws. Then look at Sachins. What good if you bat fast bat can't get the right result.

Viv avg when WI win=52, draw=60
Sachin avg when India win=67, draw=65

It probably has to do with the fact that Viv won proportionately more matches and hence it will be closer to his career average. Viv has won over half the matches he's ever played; Sachin less than a third.

Jack Hobbs averaged 68 in wins from a nearly 50% win rate. And George Headley, who admittedly won only a quarter of his matches thanks to a pretty ordinary team around him, averaged a ridiculous 95.75.

Punter actually averages almost 62 in wins, which is particularly impressive given his teams' near-70% win rate.

 

[asty80]

If I remember correctly,the Don annointed Sachin as his successor.....or something of that sort....And Viv agrees that Sachin is better than him. I can't argue knowing more than those two legends.

 

[mohammad16]

If I remember correctly,the Don annointed Sachin as his successor.....or something of that sort....And Viv agrees that Sachin is better than him. I can't argue knowing more than those two legends.

Just because you are a great player doesn't automatically mean you are a great judge of one.

Lara, Sobers and Richards easily could be said to be right on par if not better than Tendulkar. Tendulkar has just happened to receive that much more exposure and limelight due to playing in a cricket mad nation of a billion people. I am not downplaying his greatness, just that such things factor into peoples perception of a player.

 

[DingDong]

so is it fair to say that the general consensus among fans is that tendulkar is the second greatest of all time? i'm only asking because i really don't know.

 

[Lillian Thomson]

so is it fair to say that the general consensus among fans is that tendulkar is the second greatest of all time? i'm only asking because i really don't know.

No it isn't. If it was a general consensus he'd have more than 26% of the votes.

 

[bagapath]

Wasn't consistent enough.

disagree. 50+ avg in the 70s and 80s over 120 test matches at a 69+ SR is phenomenal. Unless Sehwag manages to maintain his amazing run for his next 30 tests, viv could very well be the only batsman in history with a 65+ SR and a 50+ avg.

 

[satyam]

It probably has to do with the fact that Viv won proportionately more matches and hence it will be closer to his career average. Viv has won over half the matches he's ever played; Sachin less than a third.

Viv had a bowling attack , which sachin could not even dream of.

 

[Teja.]

Viv had a bowling attack , which sachin could not even dream of.

Yes, but what Ikki is trying to say, methinks, is not that Viv won more matches than Sachin or vice-versa but that Viv's average when his team won is so close to his normal average because his team won a hell load of times, the fewer the times a player's team wins, the higher the average will vary from normal average generally.

 

[G.I.Joe]

Yes, but what Ikki is trying to say, methinks, is not that Viv won more matches than Sachin or vice-versa but that Viv's average when his team won is so close to his normal average because his team won a hell load of times, the fewer the times a player's team wins, the higher the average will vary from normal average generally.

Not necessarily. If your bowling attack is excellent, you'll tend to have a higher average in wins because many of your runs scored in potential draws would end up being included among the wins instead.

 

[Teja.]

Not necessarily. If your bowling attack is excellent, you'll tend to have a higher average in wins because many of your runs scored in potential draws would end up being included among the wins instead.

The runs you score in potential draws might/might not be higher than your average. It evens out.

 

[G.I.Joe]

The runs you score in potential draws might/might not be higher than your average. It evens out.

No it doesn't. How many batsmen have a higher career average than their average in draws?

 

[bagapath]

No it doesn't. How many batsmen have a higher career average than their average in draws?

almost all good batsmen do.

 

[The Sean]

so is it fair to say that the general consensus among fans is that tendulkar is the second greatest of all time? i'm only asking because i really don't know.

I'm never quite sure when you're being serious DingDong.

But if you are then the answer is no, that's not the consensus. Leaving aside WG, whose peak was in the pre-Test era, I think the closest we have to a consensus on this is that there is a group of maybe half a dozen or so (perhaps more) batsmen with very little between them, and that Tendulkar is one of that group.

 

[satyam]

almost all good batsmen do.

Sorry, but check statsguru. No one has done.

 

[The Sean]

almost all good batsmen do.

Really? I've not looked it up, but that would surprise me a lot if true.

 

[gwo]

Top 150 Batsmen (# of runs scored) with avg > avg in draws
Player Ave Ave in Draws only
SR Waugh (Aus) 51.06 35.74
JH Kallis (ICC/SA) 54.76 45.28
CG Greenidge (WI) 44.72 44.12
KC Sangakkara (SL) 55.1 49.96
CH Lloyd (WI) 46.67 45.59
DL Haynes (WI) 42.29 39.68
L Hutton (Eng) 56.67 54.02
GC Smith (ICC/SA) 49.99 48.31
GP Thorpe (Eng) 44.66 44.4
AC Gilchrist (Aus) 47.6 36.92
MJ Slater (Aus) 42.83 40.54
IR Redpath (Aus) 43.45 40.02
MJ Clarke (Aus) 51.61 40.54
Saeed Anwar (Pak) 45.52 35.86
AB de Villiers (SA) 42.87 36.92
MEK Hussey (Aus) 52.36 42.5
AW Greig (Eng) 40.43 36.38
Asif Iqbal (Pak) 38.85 36.38
HA Gomes (WI) 39.63 38.44

 

[Days of Grace]

Proven a bit wrong there, mate.

Nah, to be fair, I think Gavaskar cashed in big time in draws.

Keep in mind though, that there are really three types of draws:
a) Rain affected so much that there was never a chance of a result
b) Your team has the upper hand all match but can't seal the deal
c) Your team is battling all match but manages to save the match

I say c) matches should be included along with results to get a good indicator of a batsman's worth. What do others think?