Good/Great bowlers that owned good/great batsman...

[Burgey]

Not really, an average of 31 (which was considerably higher if you consider only series' from '94 to '00) against some of the best bowlers history has known is not a shabby effort.

Atherton was a pretty decent Test batsman and nothing more or less.

I don't think he was great, not that you're saying he was btw, nor do I think he was as bad as Streetwise is saying.

Only problem with just taking 94-2000 though is it's pretty selective. I understand why you do so, and that's fine, I just don't agree with it is all. If we took Steve Waugh from 93-2000, I'd venture a guess to say he'd be in the top half dozen average-wise all time (cbf looking it up though).

 

[Streetwise]

Allan Donald will answer that if you ask him nicely.

Flat wickets.

 

[Maximus0723]

Flat wickets.

so...

 

[Uppercut]

Flat wickets.

Dodgy umpiring a much better excuse tbf.

 

[Sir Alex]

To call Atherton was "owned" by Ambrose/Walsh is a bit unfair. His overall career average against them is 31.74 but that doesn't tell the entire story. A breakup of series stats reveal

1991 - 5 matches, 79 runs @ 8.33 - Indeed dire. But he was starting out.
1993-94 - 5 matches, 510 runs @ 56.66 - Brilliant - 2 100s as well
1995 - 6 matches, 488 runs @ 40 - Quite good as being opener
1998 - 6 matches, 199 runs @ 18 - Poor, maybe Richard can offer insight into this
2000 - 5 matches, 311 runs @ 35, not poor, not great either.

So in all he had two really poor series, 1 mediocre, 1 good and 1 excellent series against them. I wouldn't call that "pwned"

 

[Top_Cat]

So why bring up Ishant/Ponting earlier when that was basically for one spell and Ponting's been ahead in Tests and ODI's since? If the above is 'a bit unfair', saying Ishant owned Ponting is extremely unfair.

 

[Sir Alex]

So why bring up Ishant/Ponting earlier when that was basically for one spell and Ponting's been ahead in Tests and ODI's since? If the above is 'a bit unfair', saying Ishant owned Ponting is extremely unfair.

5 times in 7 test matches @ 17 is pwnage considering Ponting literally had no answer to Ishant's line. He kept on getting out to him and in similar fashion even in ODIs also. And worst, Ishant had to compete with Harbhajan remember

 

[Top_Cat]

5 times in 7 test matches @ 17 is pwnage considering Ponting literally had no answer to Ishant's line. He kept on getting out to him and in similar fashion even in ODIs also. And worst, Ishant had to compete with Harbhajan remember

The difference is that Ponting was still scoring runs, though. The per-bowler average is one of the more pointless stats I've come across.

 

[Sir Alex]

The difference is that Ponting was still scoring runs, though. The per-bowler average is one of the more pointless stats I've come across.

The point is other than for two flat decks (Adelaide and Bangalore), Ishant dominated him throughout. 20,45,17,5 and 2 are his scores when Ishant got him.

 

[Top_Cat]

The point is other than for two flat decks (Adelaide and Bangalore), Ishant dominated him throughout. 20,45,17,5 and 2 are his scores when Ishant got him.

A bit selective there, don't you think? The above doesn't make the scores when Ishant didn't dismiss Ponting just go away, flat decks or not. A player being 'owned' by another suggests it happened regardless of the conditions.

Ishant's him got a few more times than the other bowlers, sure. But if you're going to claim Atherton wasn't owned, neither was Ponting.

 

[Burgey]

The point is other than for two flat decks (Adelaide and Bangalore), Ishant dominated him throughout. 20,45,17,5 and 2 are his scores when Ishant got him.

I'd like to see Sharma bowl at him now. What a bloody disappointment he's been of late, injuries or otherwise.

Had massive wraps on that kid, bugger's beginning to let me down.

 

[Sir Alex]

I'd like to see Sharma bowl at him now. What a bloody disappointment he's been of late, injuries or otherwise.

Had massive wraps on that kid, bugger's beginning to let me down.

Yeah that one spell in Perth was one for the gods. That sparked of Ponting's recent slump.

He's still very young and is sometimes heavily criticised even though he has had to operate on some really flat wickets. However he's a terrible limited overs bowler and has some way to go. Still he's a great prospect and I foresee him and the dancer being india's pace duo of future in tests.

 

[vcs]

That Perth spell was actually the extended version of what Flintoff did to Ponting in that famous Edgbaston over. Such a rare and enjoyable sight for an Indian cricket fan to see an Indian fast bowler working over a great batsman.

 

[Teja.]

IMO, Sreesanth is more talented than Ishant by quite a margin.

 

[Streetwise]

The point is other than for two flat decks (Adelaide and Bangalore), Ishant dominated him throughout. 20,45,17,5 and 2 are his scores when Ishant got him.

If Ishant dominated througout why did you not mention that Ponting has scores of 140, 120, 87 and 55 when Ishant was bowling also.

So in matches ishant played Ponting averages about 45.

 

[Sir Alex]

A bit selective there, don't you think? The above doesn't make the scores when Ishant didn't dismiss Ponting just go away, flat decks or not. A player being 'owned' by another suggests it happened regardless of the conditions.

Ishant's him got a few more times than the other bowlers, sure. But if you're going to claim Atherton wasn't owned, neither was Ponting.

It was not a Harbjanesque kind of domination. But given the conditions, the vast gulf in their experience etc, Ishant did dominate Ponting.

Their player vs player record is as follows:

Test	Innings	 	Runs 	 Balls 	 Wicket 
Sydney	1st Innings	 14 	 15 	
Perth	1st Innings	 0   	 3 	 1 
	2nd innings	 15 	 38 	 1 
Adelaid	1st innings	 26 	 44 	
Bnglore	1st innings	 33 	 62 	
	2nd innings	 6 	 16 	 1 
Mohali	1st innings	 0   	 8 	 1 
	2nd innings	 0   	 8 	 1 
Delhi	1st innings	 9 	 26 	
Nagpur	1st innings	 15 	 23 	
	2nd innings	 -   	 -   	
Total		 	118 	 243 	 5 
Avg/wicket			 23.60 	
SR			 	 48.56

Hard to remember anyone other than Harbhajan dominating Ponting like that.

 

[Shri]

Shane Bond?

 

[Sir Alex]

Shane Bond?

In ODIs.

 

[Cevno]

I'd like to see Sharma bowl at him now. What a bloody disappointment he's been of late, injuries or otherwise.

Had massive wraps on that kid, bugger's beginning to let me down.

Would love to see him bowl at Perth again too.

I think he would do well again on helpful bouncy tracks.

He did ok in newzealand and did well agaisnt the aussies at Mohali. It's just that on less bouncy tracks(or inconsistent bounce) or where there is swing but no carry ,he seems useless.Sreesanth and Zaheer are way better than him on such tracks.

 

[Cevno]

McGrath owning Lara and Tendulkar.

Mcgrath got Tendulkar out only 6 times.

I would say that is hardly owning him.

Sachin always had more trouble with Gillespie rather than Mcgrath.
I would say after Donald if anyone troubled Sachin more it was Gillespie .

Lara also played a ridiculous amount of matches against Mcgrath (24) that it seems that having got him out 15 times means he owned him,when in fact Lara vs Mcgrath was pretty even if you factor in all the series.


As for batsmen VVS laxman with a average of 83 was the best against mcgrath in 10 matches.

http://stats.cricinfo.com/ci/engine...ate=results;type=bowling;view=batsman_summary