Who Is The Second Greatest Batsman Ever?

[Sanz]

Because he's not even the 2nd greatest batsman from Asia.

He isn't the second greatest of his own country and I rate him very high but Hanif, Javed and Zaheer all before him IMO.

 

[Fusion]

Why not.............?

Do you seriously rate Inzi above SRT, Gavaskar, and Miandad? To me, those 3 are definately better than Inzi. One can put a strong argument that even Hanif and Dravid are better than him. I loved Inzi, he was my favorite Pakistani batsman of the 90's and 00's, and he is under-rated by many. However, he doesn't belong anywhere near the discussion of "second greatest batsman ever". That's just plain reality.

Edit: If your beef is with some of the names that are on the poll, then I agree that Inzi at least is on the same level as a Dravid/Sehwag/Hayden/Flower etc. None of these names belong in the discussion of the second greatest batsman IMHO.

 

[Teja.]

I think we will understand the true value of Sehwag's achievements only after he retires. It's funny how people hold Viv's difference with his peers in SR in such high regard but dismiss Sehwag to be a 'flat-track bully' or 'product of our times'. 6691 runs @ an average inching 54 and SR of 81 is as close to revolutionizing batting as it gets IMO. He has scored 1074 runs in his last ten games at a phenomenal strike rate of 99. The best part is he started out nervously and his initial 1000 runs at a strike rate of 60 odd, but since then has improved his speed and might well retire with a frightening strike rate of 85+. I hope he doesn't retire after 100 tests but go on to play 120-130. If he does, he will have a fair shout for being a legend of the game. The real greatness of Sehwag can only be appreciated if we analyze the massive difference between the strike rates of people having a similar average and the massive difference in averages between people having a similar strike rate. It is not for nothing that Ian Chappel compared Sehwag's approach to the game to the don's himself.

 

[wfdu_ben91]

I think we will understand the true value of Sehwag's achievements only after he retires. It's funny how people hold Viv's difference with his peers in SR in such high regard but dismiss Sehwag to be a 'flat-track bully' or 'product of our times'. 6691 runs @ an average inching 54 and SR of 81 is as close to revolutionizing batting as it gets IMO. He has scored 1074 runs in his last ten games at a phenomenal strike rate of 99. The best part is he started out nervously and his initial 1000 runs at a strike rate of 60 odd, but since then has improved his speed and might well retire with a frightening strike rate of 85+. I hope he doesn't retire after 100 tests but go on to play 120-130. If he does, he will have a fair shout for being a legend of the game. The real greatness of Sehwag can only be appreciated if we analyze the massive difference between the strike rates of people having a similar average and the massive difference in averages between people having a similar strike rate. It is not for nothing that Ian Chappel compared Sehwag's approach to the game to the don's himself.

Gilly averaged mid 50's for the majority of his career at a higher strike-rate. Not like it's never been done before.

 

[Teja.]

Gilly averaged mid 50's for the majority of his career at a higher strike-rate. Not like it's never been done before.

Averaging 48 deep down the order(with not outs et al.) is very different from averaging 54 as an opener, If Sehwag did bat at no.4, his stats would be way higher due to his higher level of comfort with spinners, But what is phenomenal is the fact that he is an opener but still is scoring at an insane rate at an extremely high average.

 

[wfdu_ben91]

Averaging 48 deep down the order(with not outs et al.) is very different from averaging 54 as an opener, If Sehwag did bat at no.4, his stats would be way higher due to his higher level of comfort with spinners.

Gilly's average only dropped below 50 once in his first 78 Tests and during that time his strike-rate never once dropped below 73. During that time, his strike-rate was only below 80 for 20 odd Tests.

Sehwag opens the batting on surfaces which are favourable to Opening Batsman. If he batted 4, he'd have a more difficult time against the spinners because he wouldn't be facing them when he has batted for 15-20 overs and already has his eye-in.

 

[Fusion]

Sehwag opens the batting on surfaces which are favourable to Opening Batsman. If he batted 4, he'd have a more difficult time against the spinners because he wouldn't be facing them when he has batted for 15-20 overs and already has his eye-in.

Right, because someone opening the innings is highly settled already and doesn't have to worry about facing the new ball or anything.

 

[wfdu_ben91]

Right, because someone opening the innings is highly settled already and doesn't have to worry about facing the new ball or anything.

Well, it's a hell of allot easier on a dead pitch.

 

[Teja.]

Gilly's average only dropped below 50 once in his first 78 Tests and during that time his strike-rate never once dropped below 73. During that time, his strike-rate was only below 80 for 20 odd Tests.

Sehwag opens the batting on surfaces which are favourable to Opening Batsman. If he batted 4, he'd have a more difficult time against the spinners because he wouldn't be facing them when he has batted for 15-20 overs and already has his eye-in.

All Batsmen of the era have the advantage of flatter wickets, He averages 49 away which is not a very great deviation from his overall average.

 

[Teja.]

Well, it's a hell of allot easier on a dead pitch.

Dead pitches? You mean turners where certain modern day greats average twenty-odd in?

 

[wfdu_ben91]

All Batsmen of the era have the advantage of flatter wickets, He averages 49 away which is not a very great deviation from his overall average.

Averages 60 inside the subcontient, 40 outside of it.

 

[wfdu_ben91]

Dead pitches? You mean turners where certain modern day greats average twenty-odd in?

Dead pitches for pace bowlers, yes.

 

[Pothas]

Another thread going down the pan.....

 

[Teja.]

Averages 60 inside the subcontient, 40 outside of it.

Yes scoring in extreme turners in Sri Lanka where other Batsmen struggle is absolutely nothing to admire, so much easier than batting in absolute minefields like Adelaide.

 

[wfdu_ben91]

Yes scoring in extreme turners in Sri Lanka where other Batsmen struggle is absolutely nothing to admire, so much easier than batting in absolute minefields like Adelaide.

Fair point. Notice how the Openers make runs but yet the middle-order struggle?

 

[jeevan]

Gilly's average only dropped below 50 once in his first 78 Tests and during that time his strike-rate never once dropped below 73. During that time, his strike-rate was only below 80 for 20 odd Tests.

Sehwag opens the batting on surfaces which are favourable to Opening Batsman. If he batted 4, he'd have a more difficult time against the spinners because he wouldn't be facing them when he has batted for 15-20 overs and already has his eye-in.

This is pretty rich. He does OK against SA as a middle order bat, and in SA it's his opening runs that matter. He does phenomenally most other places as an opener, and guess what - same person argues that his opening runs are easier to come by.

(And at Sehwag having any trouble against spinners, Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | Cricinfo.com

Let's see you slice and dice that)

 

[wfdu_ben91]

This is pretty rich. He does OK against SA as a middle order bat, and in SA it's his opening runs that matter. He does phenomenally most other places as an opener, and guess what - same person argues that his opening runs are easier to come by.

(And at Sehwag having any trouble against spinners, Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | Cricinfo.com

Let's see you slice and dice that)

It's pretty simple. It's easier as Opening Batsman inside the subcontient and harder as a middle-order batsman, but the complete opposite outside the subcontient.

Obviously when the ball is doing a bit, it is going to be harder batting in the top-order then it would be batting in the middle-order because the ball is newer, the pitch is still juicy and the bowlers are fresh. As the ball gets older and the bowlers tire, it becomes gradually easier.

On a turning track, it's going to be more favourable as an Opening-Top order batsman because subcontient tracks don't/rarely offer much to pace bowlers. Getting a few runs under your belt before the spinners come on and getting an eye for the ball is going to help your cause considerably compared to middle-order batsman who come in after a wicket falls, no runs under their belt and being surrounded by fieldsmen around the bat.

 

[Teja.]

It's pretty simple. It's easier as Opening Batsman inside the subcontient and harder as a middle-order batsman, but the complete opposite outside the subcontient.

Obviously when the ball is doing a bit, it is going to be harder batting in the top-order then it would be batting in the middle-order because the ball is newer, the pitch is still juicy and the bowlers are fresh. As the ball gets older and the bowlers tire, it becomes gradually easier.

On a turning track, it's going to be more favourable as an Opening-Top order batsman because subcontient tracks don't/rarely offer much to pace bowlers. Getting a few runs under your belt before the spinners come on and getting an eye for the ball is going to help your cause considerably compared to middle-order batsman who come in after a wicket falls, no runs under their belt and being surrounded by fieldsmen around the bat.

'The sub-continent' is a huge generalization. This is akin to removing the four best places in his record and saying his record is poor. Also would you care to explain how Zaheer has been picking up wickets at will in the very same sub-continent in recent times? Shows that when bowlers have quality, they can succeed anywhere.

EDIT:-Steyn's 10 wicket haul?

 

[wfdu_ben91]

'The sub-continent' is a huge generalization. This is akin to removing the four best places in his record and saying his record is poor. Also would you care to explain how Zaheer has been picking up wickets at will in the very same sub-continent in recent times? Shows that when bowlers have quality, they can succeed anywhere.

EDIT:-Steyn's 10 wicket haul?

His record isn't poor outside the subcontient. It's just a more realistic view - his still a good batsman, his just not great. Steyn and Zaheer is more of a testament to how good they are, rather what the conditions are.

 

[bagapath]

with both sehwag and gilly scoring 5000+ runs and 17 centuries each at 75+ SR and 46+ average we have to put them on the same plane.

the significant difference between them, though, is that sehwag has more than 5 double centuries including 2 triples and a 293 whereas gilly's highest is 204 - his only double.

when a good batsman scores at a frantic pace he damages the opposition. when he goes on and on like sehwag does at times, he kills them and buries them. sehwag's ability to bat for longer is one significant difference between him and gilly.

i dont attribute these big knocks coming only from sehwag to gilly coming down the order and sehwag coming at the top. no one other than the don has crossed 290 thrice. only one other has even crossed it twice. so give the devil his due. purely as a batsman sehwag should be rated above gilly. (and I was the one pushing for gilly in the top 25 batsmen thread.) still, he is not good enough to be considered for the second best batsman title.