Career Averages that dont do justice

[wfdu_ben91]

Would average 60 if he played in Australia all his cricket. Same as Ponting

Would average 9 if he opened the batting in South Africa like Graeme Smith does.

 

[Sir Alex]

Would average 9 if he opened the batting in South Africa like Graeme Smith does.

So you see the problem with your distorted analysis right?

 

[Migara]

But have you noticed that the best spinners have always been humbled by the best batsman? Ie Tendulkar, Lara and Ponting murdering Warne & Murali but never really consistently getting ontop of the likes of McGrath and co?

Only McGrath did escape. Wasim and Waqar were taken to the cleaners by de Silva in 1994 when de Silva scored 90 runs in the first morning of a test. Donald & co received a mind boggling attack twice from Azhar, in India and SAF. I think Jayasuriya had a big go at McGrath when he scored his 1st test century in Australia (but needs to clarify). I am sure Ambrose and Walsh also have got some hammering once in a while

 

[GotSpin]

Only McGrath did escape. Wasim and Waqar were taken to the cleaners by de Silva in 1994 when de Silva scored 90 runs in the first morning of a test. Donald & co received a mind boggling attack twice from Azhar, in India and SAF. I think Jayasuriya had a big go at McGrath when he scored his 1st test century in Australia (but needs to clarify). I am sure Ambrose and Walsh also have got some hammering once in a while

He certainly teed off against him in the ODI series here. Forget what year though. Good match.

 

[jeevan]

Would average 9 if he opened the batting in South Africa like Graeme Smith does.

Would without question be the 2nd best batsman after Bradman if he did, as he'd grow up learning to play the seaming stuff. That, plus his god given hand eye coordination and clarity of mind would put him head and shoulders above the rest like Ponting and Hayden, who've achieved all they could (good on them for it).

 

[wfdu_ben91]

Would without question be the 2nd best batsman after Bradman if he did, as he'd grow up learning to play the seaming stuff. That, plus his god given hand eye coordination and clarity of mind would put him head and shoulders above the rest like Ponting and Hayden, who've achieved all they could (good on them for it).

No, if Sehwag was South African then he'd weasel his way out by going and playing for England instead. Or he'd be a stand up verison of Roelof van der Merwe. Either way.

 

[jeevan]

You could say Laxman has seriously underachieved. Done the hard stuff well, and not cashed in enough on the easy things.

Averages 82.4 in 10 matches against McGrath in his prime (99-04), 41 in SA and doesn't seem to have big glaring weaknesses while he might not have done a Sehwag or a Sidhu on the spinners. Has had very big scores, played seminal knocks and appears to have checked all the boxes yet averaging 47 in tests is well behind players who so obviously have not.

Except in Australia (average 54) averages between 36 (in SL) and 49 (in IND) which has got to be about the tightest range for a major batsman.

 

[jeevan]

No, if Sehwag was South African then he'd weasel his way out by going and playing for England instead. Or he'd be a stand up verison of Roelof van der Merwe. Either way.

On what possible basis do you say that? Except that it's an argument that fits on one line.

Perhaps you are mixing up Hayden and Sehwag, Hayden does not have the talent of Sehwag, just most of the limitations.

 

[wfdu_ben91]

On what possible basis do you say that? Except that it's an argument that fits on one line.

Perhaps you are mixing up Hayden and Sehwag, Hayden does not have the talent of Sehwag, just most of the limitations.

Limitations? Hayden averages higher in South Africa as an Opening Batsman then Sehwag's highest score as an opener in South Africa.

There is no way Sehwag could play in South Africa the way he does in the subcontient - that's why his record in South Africa resembles a tailender. He'd either have to completely change his game or been known as a mediocre slogging South African domestic opener.

 

[Richard]

I can remember some one saying that keeper stood up to Fred "Demon" Spofforth, who was considrered to be lightening by the standards of the day. I can't find any keeper agreeing to do it today even to a lively fast medium bowler like Ishant SHarma or Thilan Thushara. Never mind Akthars, Lees, Bollingers, Nannes', Jhonsons and Bonds

It's interesting, Spofforth apparently boasted that he "was the fastest there ever was", and among the many dismissals of that was Lord Harris (or was it Hawke...?) who called it "harmless delusion" and proceeded to list 6 or 7 who he believed clearly quicker.

Spofforth, from what I've tended to deduce (and there can never be certainty about the matter), would probably have been a fast-medium bowler at best.

Jack Blackham, the wicketkeeper in question, BTW, for anyone who's unaware is almost universally recognised as one of if not the greatest glovemen ever.

 

[Richard]

Barnes' most succesful test series was in 1913-4 against SA ON MATTING when he took 49 wickets @ 10, a figure that represents more than 25% of his total test wicket tally

Matting wickets (even today's variety) are an absolute minefield so you can almost totally discount those figures

When you also consider that the remainder of his career was played on uncovered wickets, I think it's fair to view his figures with a degree of scepticism

As I say, UIMM that's the only part of the 30-odd-year career which he enjoyed which came on matting wickets.

Uncovered or covered doesn't tend to make a massive difference to wristspinners. It's fingerspinners who found the death-knell from covering.

 

[Richard]

Probably because it's allot more difficult to bat on a green pitch then it is to bat on a dustbowl.

At best you could claim it's marginally more difficult.

A proper, uneven dustbowl is incredibly hard to score runs on; a proper, uneven greentop is incredibly hard to score runs on. The physical threat may be greater from the latter, but the difficulty of scoring runs is marginally different at best.

 

[The Sean]

It's interesting, Spofforth apparently boasted that he "was the fastest there ever was", and among the many dismissals of that was Lord Harris (or was it Hawke...?) who called it "harmless delusion" and proceeded to list 6 or 7 who he believed clearly quicker.

Spofforth, from what I've tended to deduce (and there can never be certainty about the matter), would probably have been a fast-medium bowler at best.

Jack Blackham, the wicketkeeper in question, BTW, for anyone who's unaware is almost universally recognised as one of if not the greatest glovemen ever.

Yep, you're dead on there - in fact that Spofforth boast surprises me and I would be tempted to put it down to deliberate bravado to intimidate opposing batsmen rather than how he actually felt, because old Fred actually prided himself on his cleverness as a bowler rather than his sheer speed and he made frequent use of variations in line, length and pace.

Because of his aggressive demeanour and appearance we tend to have the picture of Spofforth as a fire-breathing tearaway, whereas in fact he was one of the first bowlers to analyse a batsman's strengths and weaknesses and treat bowling as a kind of science. His basic speed seems to have been somewhere between medium pace and fast medium, with the occasional very fast ball thrown in for surprise or impact.

 

[Richard]

I've not studied him in intimate detail, as I say, but there's long been some amount of similarity between him and Glenn McGrath in my mind - in having plentiful snarling aggression but being little more than a fast-medium-at-best bowler.

 

[Riggins]

Damien Martyn should be in this category. Average of ~47, probably should have been around 110-115.

 

[Top_Cat]

Damien Martyn should be in this category. Average of ~47, probably should have been around 110-115.

DM's average should be replaced with '***'.

 

[slippyslip]

And had his entire career been played in dead rubbers, he almost certainly would have.

Right, because that double century in India in the tied test was a dead rubber?

Because Dean Jones last series in Sri Lanka he (along with Greg Matthews) didnt save Australia from defeat?

 

[vic_orthdox]

No, if Sehwag was South African then he'd weasel his way out by going and playing for England instead. Or he'd be a stand up verison of Roelof van der Merwe. Either way.

Please abstain from attempting to goad other posters. Such suggestions are baseless, and this whole conversation is doing nothing for the thread.

 

[wfdu_ben91]

Please abstain from attempting to goad other posters. Such suggestions are baseless, and this whole conversation is doing nothing for the thread.

Read the post I quoted, tbh. 2nd best batsman ever? Pfft.

 

[jeevan]

Read the post I quoted, tbh. 2nd best batsman ever? Pfft.

_If_ he had better technique for seaming or swinging conditions. Nothing hard to imagine about that, he's sewn up amazing strike rates and big scores as an opener that already makes him stand out.