Vaas vs Srinath vs Lee vs Zaheer vs Sobers

[GIMH]

I'm not going to waste everyone's time by getting in a grammar debate and I am going out in a sec anyway. But write and off are separate words and when using as a verb should not be hyphenated.

As for the logic of hyphenating nonsense - well it's because the origin of the word is to combine two separate words in the first place (none and sense).

 

[Sir Alex]

There is no verb write-off.

 

[Richard]

As for the logic of hyphenating nonsense - well it's because the origin of the word is to combine two separate words in the first place (none and sense).

Same could be applied to quite a few other things - but why would anyone bother splitting-up a word then hyphenating it?

 

[Jono]

Uhh, grammar fight?

Anyway, for me Lee is the best of the lot I've seen, when at his best. Vaas was more consistent and played on flatter wickets though.

Hard to split them both.

 

[Richard]

I've no objection to the notion that Lee at his best was equable with Vaas at his best, but sheesh, Vaas produced his best ~50% of his career, at regular intervals, Lee barely produced it 25% of his, two very short periods at the start and near the end.

I know who that makes superior to my mind, I couldn't care less for any form of statistical breakdown.

 

[chicane]

You ARE kidding?

Vaas is beyond question the most inconsistent bowler ever to have a substantial Test career.

Vaas at his best was as good as any bowler can be, but at his worst he was so far short of Test-class it was embarrassing.

I've no objection to the notion that Lee at his best was equable with Vaas at his best, but sheesh, Vaas produced his best ~50% of his career, at regular intervals, Lee barely produced it 25% of his, two very short periods at the start and near the end.

I know who that makes superior to my mind, I couldn't care less for any form of statistical breakdown.

What do you mean by substantial career here? From what I have interpreted, one post is suggesting reasonable consistency and another is suggesting the opposite.

 

[Richard]

By substantial career I mean playing reasonably consistently (ie, with not that much time out with injury or non-selection) over a period of about 7-8 years or more.

As for Vaas, he was up and down with barely a moment's notice as to what was coming next - impossibly inconsistent. You won't find a post of mine that suggests otherwise. It generally came-out at about 50\50 though. With Lee he was crap for most of his career and brilliant in a couple of short bursts. No contest, for my money.

 

[Jono]

I've no objection to the notion that Lee at his best was equable with Vaas at his best, but sheesh, Vaas produced his best ~50% of his career, at regular intervals, Lee barely produced it 25% of his, two very short periods at the start and near the end.

I know who that makes superior to my mind, I couldn't care less for any form of statistical breakdown.

Was that directed at me?

 

[Migara]

I conclude. A Sri Lankan can be never as good as an Australian.

 

[Avada Kedavra]

Um, check the SR.

Vaas home - 180 wickets at 26.32 with an SR of 60.7, away - 175 wickets at 32.34 with an SR of 70.3.
Lee home - 186 wickets at 28.72 with an SR of 51.3, away - 119 at 33.42 with an SR of 55.2.

Next time you want to reply...don't. You just embarrassed yourself.

So jump on the one area Lee is ahead and say that proves Lee is better? Are you really serious or what ? Murali > Warne and Waqar > McGrath. Come up with more idiotic arguments now.

I will definitely think twice about replying to you again because there is no point in trying to debate with someone so pathetically biased. I mean imagine claiming that Lee would have a better record had he played B/Z more often despite the fact that he averages 47 and 37 against them in 6 matches together Incredible

 

[Avada Kedavra]

I conclude. A Sri Lankan can be never as good as an Australian.

No Asian player can be better than a non Asian because all Asian players are chuckers who play on pitches that are flat when their batsmen are batting and that become dustbowls and greentops when their bowlers are bowling

 

[Athlai]

Ikki's argument about why Murali and Waqar's strike rates are less important should be interesting.

 

[Streetwise]

Both Vaas and Lee have almost identical careers, both started well with averages around 20. By test 24 Vaas average had climbed to 29 and did not alter by more than 3 runs for the rest of his carrer. Lees average hit 29 by test 27 and did not alter by more than 4 runs for the rest of his career. No wild flucuations from either bowler.

 

[DingDong]

I conclude. A Sri Lankan can be never as good as an Australian.

why are u even arguing this at all? vaas is clearly ahead in the poll and what does it matter what one poster thinks?

 

[Ikki]

I decided to end this argument the moment you started qualifying averages of 32 and 35 as "more than good record".

When you're striking in the 50s, it's more than good. Especially in an era known for flat pitches. Only the S.Africa record would I say decent/merely good but considering the opposition it's fine. Overall, more than good .

 

[Ikki]

So jump on the one area Lee is ahead and say that proves Lee is better? Are you really serious or what ? Murali > Warne and Waqar > McGrath. Come up with more idiotic arguments now.

I will definitely think twice about replying to you again because there is no point in trying to debate with someone so pathetically biased. I mean imagine claiming that Lee would have a better record had he played B/Z more often despite the fact that he averages 47 and 37 against them in 6 matches together Incredible

You're hilarious.

You point to the difference in averages where at home it's about 2.4 runs between them, yet their SRs are 9 points different. Away their averages are separated by 1 point, yet their SRs are separated by 15. Of course I am going to point it out.

It shows that Vaas was a dangerous bowler mostly at home though whereas Lee, even if he was a little more expensive, was still taking wickets at a very high clip home and away. Vaas was striking at 70, which is simply not good enough for an opening bowler.

They average roughly the same with different quirks in their records - both being inconsistent really - but Lee is a mile ahead with his SR. His SR is comparable with the greats.

If you have two bowlers:

A: avg 22, SR 62
B: avg. 23, SR 52

it's kinda easy to spot.

Vaas: avg. 29.58, SR 66
Lee: avg. 30.81, SR 53.3

Ikki's argument about why Murali and Waqar's strike rates are less important should be interesting.

Er, what? Relevance would be nice.

 

[vic_orthdox]

I'd take Vaas. I probably didn't witness the best of Srinath, he was pretty toothless when I saw him in Australia.

People have pointed out about the Sri Lankan conditions, although the ball can swing quite a bit early in the day there. Plus the fact that quite often, you are a product of your cricketing upbringing. The arguments about home vs away with regards to Subcontinent pacers can be difficult to really determine a purpose.

 

[Avada Kedavra]

You're hilarious.

You point to the difference in averages where at home it's about 2.4 runs between them, yet their SRs are 9 points different. Away their averages are separated by 1 point, yet their SRs are separated by 15. Of course I am going to point it out.

It shows that Vaas was a dangerous bowler mostly at home though whereas Lee, even if he was a little more expensive, was still taking wickets at a very high clip home and away. Vaas was striking at 70, which is simply not good enough for an opening bowler.

They average roughly the same with different quirks in their records - both being inconsistent really - but Lee is a mile ahead with his SR. His SR is comparable with the greats.

If you have two bowlers:

A: avg 22, SR 62
B: avg. 23, SR 52

it's kinda easy to spot.

Vaas: avg. 29.58, SR 66
Lee: avg. 30.81, SR 53.3




Er, what? Relevance would be nice.

Stop clutching at straws 9? Hey that is the the same difference between the SR's of Waqar and the great Mcgrath/Lillee Oh wait, now average is more important, no average, no home SR, no away average, no the problem actually is that mcgrath, lillee and lee are Aussies so naturally they are better than everyone else since sliced bread.Speaking of SR,Sehwag owns Ponting doesn't he? Btw Vaas played a lot of his cricket in the very place Lee averages 56

 

[Migara]

Ikki, post the Economy rates as well.

 

[wfdu_ben91]

Unfortunately, you can't give an assessment that isn't laden with Richard-esque non-sense so that counter acts that bias to nationality.

Not trying to flare things up, but any bowler that Hayden has had success against is immediately written off by Richard. Pollock (when Hayden started having success against him), Ntini, Vaas, Waqar Younis in ODI's. It all seems to add up having argued to him about the issue on a few occasions.

Nevertheless Vaas is the best bowler out of this topic. Lee was probably a better bowler when at his best though.