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Waqar Younis

Teja.

Teja.

Global Moderator
Waqar Younis, for me atleast, is the most entertaining cricketer I have seen. He was close to being a demi-god in the 1990-1995 period and was still an extremely good bowler throughout his career, He also hasthe highest strike rate for any test bowler to take 200 wickets (neat margin ahead of next best Maco), and has a brilliant average, he also has the record for the fastest 50,100,150,200,250,300,350 wickets taken in test match cricket based on the deliveries bowled criteria and has a fabulous 5-for/4-for rate.

It is true that his economy rate is a little higher than other all-time greats, but that is partly due to his habit of baiting batsmen with boundaries before going for the kill. It is testimony to his prodigious ability that even after taking 373 wickets @ 23.57, he is considered by many to be an unfulfilled Talent.

My question is why is Waqar not usually considered to be of the same class as the Marshalls, the Mcgraths, the Imrans and the Amroses, even though he is statistically and effectively so ruddy brilliant? Could anyone shed a light on the weaknesses of Waqar? Please understand that this question is not to challenge POVs but rather to gain insights on people's perceptions of greatness.

http://www.cricinfo.com/ci/content/player/43543.html - statistics here.


P.S:-His bowling makes great Youtube videos too. :P
 
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vcs

vcs

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Not that entertaining if you were an Indian fan. :ph34r:

It was ridiculous the number of times Waqar used to hit the stumps, especially in ODIs.
 
Goughy

Goughy

Hall of Fame Member
No doubt he was one of the most entertaining ever.

Why isnt he put in the same class of others? A combination of ball tampering allegations, injury, decline, overall record, never translating that success into Pakistan being the #1 Test team and his own profile suffers from not being a part of the 92 WC winning Pakistan team etc
 
Teja.

Teja.

Global Moderator
vcs said:
Not that entertaining if you were an Indian fan. :ph34r:

It was ridiculous the number of times Waqar used to hit the stumps, especially in ODIs.
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Haha, fair point that, but sometimes he bowled so well, he almost made me switch sides during a match. I almost always hoped 'India-should-win-but-Waqar-should-bag-3'.
 
Teja.

Teja.

Global Moderator
Goughy said:
No doubt he was one of the most entertaining ever.

Why isnt he put in the same class of others? A combination of ball tampering allegations, injury, decline, overall record, never translating that success into Pakistan being the #1 Test team and his own profile suffers from not being a part of the 92 WC winning Pakistan team etc
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It is a commonly held belief that Waqar did not have a great overall record. Playing 87 tests as a fast bowler is very very good, Alot of his era retired at about 100 tests, but it's a difference of just 13 tests. The ball tampering allegations haven't been proven and the decline is so apparent only because he was so darn divine in the beginning. Also, injury is a fair point as it made him miss out on the 92 WC.
 
vcs

vcs

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Teja. said:
Haha, fair point that, but sometimes he bowled so well, he almost made me switch sides during a match. I almost always hoped 'India-should-win-but-Waqar-should-bag-3'.
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I have to say, as an Indian fan, the first thing that comes to mind when I think of Waqar is that demolition job Jadeja did on him in WC '96. I think, he had conceded something like 11 or 12 runs in 8 overs and was getting the ball to reverse swing. India had around 232 in 47 overs. I was just hoping to get past 250.
 
Teja.

Teja.

Global Moderator
vcs said:
I have to say, as an Indian fan, the first thing that comes to mind when I think of Waqar is that demolition job Jadeja did on him in WC '96. I think, he had conceded something like 11 or 12 runs in 8 overs and was getting the ball to reverse swing. India had around 232 in 47 overs. I was just hoping to get past 250.
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I have to say that is the best ODI match I ever watched, and the the Prasad-Sohail moment was the best cricket moment for me. However, bowlers occasionally tend to be taken for runs and the fact remains that even after being hit for 40 runs, his match figures were 2-67, which are by no means pathetic.
 
Richard

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Teja. said:
It is true that his economy rate is a little higher than other all-time greats, but that is partly due to his habit of baiting batsmen with boundaries before going for the kill.
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Not sure about that TBH. Don't think he ever deliberately gave away runs. Just that his method was prone to being both profligate and astoundingly dangerous. It was a fine strategy - he did not need to worry about conceding runs because he knew full well that by doing so he was making it more likely that he'd produce the RUD that smashed the stumps at any minute.

Make no mistake, if he'd carried-on with the sort of performances he managed 1990/91-1994/95 instead of getting injured, he'd be the 2nd-best after Barnes (and for those who refuse to accept Barnes' hedgemony, the best). But I have no hesitation at all in recognising Waqar as in the top echleon of seam bowlers. As good as Imran and Wasim? No, not quite. But not far behind, at all.
 
Teja.

Teja.

Global Moderator
Richard said:
Not sure about that TBH. Don't think he ever deliberately gave away runs. Just that his method was prone to being both profligate and astoundingly dangerous. It was a fine strategy - he did not need to worry about conceding runs because he knew full well that by doing so he was making it more likely that he'd produce the RUD that smashed the stumps at any minute.

Make no mistake, if he'd carried-on with the sort of performances he managed 1990/91-1994/95 instead of getting injured, he'd be the 2nd-best after Barnes (and for those who refuse to accept Barnes' hedgemony, the best). But I have no hesitation at all in recognising Waqar as in the top echleon of seam bowlers. As good as Imran and Wasim? No, not quite. But not far behind, at all.
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I remember an instance in which Lara was going great guns and Waqar was introduced into the attack, He bowled three half volleys at about 130 kph, and Brain sent all those to the boundary, then he sent a fast-as-hell banana yorker to send the stumps flying. Genius. There were more instances too, but he did alot more in ODIs than Test match cricket. The danger also lay, I'll admit, in his approach to bowling in itself.

Personally I rate Waqar to be the best ODI bowler ever and in the top 5 test fast bowlers of the past 50 years.(On the same level as Wasim)
 
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Goughy

Goughy

Hall of Fame Member
Teja. said:
I remember an instance in which Lara was going great guns and Waqar was introduced into the attack, He bowled three half volleys at about 130 kph, and Brain sent all those to the boundary, then he sent a fast-as-hell banana yorker to send the stumps flying. Genius. There were more instances too, but he did alot more in ODIs than Test match cricket. The danger also lay, I'll admit, in his approach to bowling in itself.

Personally I rate Waqar to be the best ODI bowler ever and in the top 5 test bowlers of the past 50 years.(On the same level as Wasim)
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How on earth anyone has Wasim as a top 5 bowler of the last 50 years is beyond me.
 
Goughy

Goughy

Hall of Fame Member
Teja. said:
EDIT: Fast bowler.
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Still not close in my opinion. In fact not remotely close. Its all about opinions so Ive obviously no issue with you holding thought that but I honestly can fathom how you can reach that conclusion
 
Teja.

Teja.

Global Moderator
Goughy said:
Still not close in my opinion. In fact not remotely close. Its all about opinions so Ive obviously no issue with you holding thought that but I honestly can fathom how you can reach that conclusion
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It's not like a total joke, He statistically compares very well with the other greats.
 
silentstriker

silentstriker

The Wheel is Forever
Maximus0723 said:
I would like to hear your list.
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Dunno about Goughy, but I'd have (in no exact order):

  1. McGrath
  2. Marshall
  3. Ambrose
  4. Lillee
  5. Imran
  6. Hadlee

All I think would be definitely above. I don't know where Goughy ranks Wasim (perhaps not as high as I do), but I'd rate Wasim towards the bottom of the top 10 (11-12 at worst) in the last 50 years.
 
Sanz

Sanz

Hall of Fame Member
Goughy said:
How on earth anyone has Wasim as a top 5 bowler of the last 50 years is beyond me.
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How on earth he isn't is beyond me too.

I would be interested in knowing exactly what Wasim lacked as bowler that other great fast bowlers of last 50 years had.
 
Teja.

Teja.

Global Moderator
Mine would be :-

1.Marshall (Strike rate close to Waqar, epic average, I think the best by a stretch)
2.Imran Khan
3.Dennis Lille
4.Richard Hadlee
5.Waqar Younis/Fred Trueman.
 
Maximus0723

Maximus0723

State Regular
silentstriker said:
Dunno about Goughy, but I'd have (in no exact order):

  1. McGrath
  2. Marshall
  3. Ambrose
  4. Lillee
  5. Imran
  6. Hadlee

All I think would be definitely above. I don't know where Goughy ranks Wasim (perhaps not as high as I do), but I'd rate Wasim towards the bottom of the top 10 (11-12 at worst) in the last 50 years.
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Like the jump, though I was curious to hear about your order rather then tier.

Just for tests: I would have to go with McGrath, Marshall, Hadlee, Ambrose then Imran.
 
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