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*Official* Zimbabwe in West Indies
- Thread starter James
- Start date
WindieWeathers
International Regular
What do you mean "anti jamaican stance"?
most of the people who happen to be from that part of the caribbean are defending Nash, no-one else so why can't i bring that up? furthemore at the stage where Nash and Deo were at the crease we were in a decent position to make a charge and put pressure on the Aussies but that never materialised because Nash couldn't bring himself to be more attacking, at the end of the day i wouldn't be complaining if he'd carried the innings forward but "the cold hard facts" were HE DIDN'T, which totally contradicts your "bogged down" comment, We simply can't afford to be sentimentle about players Mike, Deo looks a better player and imo he's earned his place in the side, and as he also offers something to the bowling department either Shiv or Nash should step aside, that's just my opinion, you might not like it but that's what it is.
WindieWeathers
International Regular
That's a weak point Roseboy because lets be honest not even his fellow Jamaican's could make an argument for him after his shocking performances!!
.
roseboy64
Cricket Web Content Updater
But according to you I should have been defending him regardless?That's a weak point Roseboy because lets be honest not even his fellow Jamaican's could make an argument for him after his shocking performances!!
Furball
Evil Scotsman
If he was still playing for WI i'm sure you'd be singing a different tune!!
What?That's a weak point Roseboy because lets be honest not even his fellow Jamaican's could make an argument for him after his shocking performances!!
WindieWeathers
International Regular
And
Does one man represent the WHOLE of Jamaica now?
i'm sure other Jamaicans can see Deo is better than Nash, Roseboy on the other hand can't seem to accept that possibility.
WindieWeathers
International Regular
"A lot"? what you mean four people?
i'm certainly not losing any sleep over it. at the end of the day it's Gibson's decision, not ours.
shivfan
Banned
It becomes an anti-jamaican stance when you ridicule posters for defending Nash, claiming that they're only doing so on the basis of nationality, when the stats clearly show that Nash was the second most prolific batsmen for the West Indies on that Test tour. None of the Tests petered out to a draw as a result of slow batting, so your point is totally irrelevant. Once agian, this is not ODI cricket we're talking about.What do you mean "anti jamaican stance"?
We simply can't afford to be sentimentle about players Mike, Deo looks a better player and imo he's earned his place in the side, and as he also offers something to the bowling department either Shiv or Nash should step aside, that's just my opinion, you might not like it but that's what it is.
When the Windies can produce batsmen who can score more runs than Nash during a Test series on a regular basis, then yes, they can replace him. But until that happens, Nash deserves his place. It's not a matter of sentimentality - it's cold, hard stats. Talking about earning a place in the side, well, Nash has done it.
That might be your opinion, but it's an erroneous one, and one that other posters may feel to challenge, and rightly so....
shivfan
Banned
And
Does one man represent the WHOLE of Jamaica now?
I'm sorry, but that's a laughable suggestion....
Deonarine - five Tests, average 29.
Nash - 12 tests, average 39.
Right now, nash is clearly the better player. When Deo lives up to his potential, and averages higher than Nash, than you can say so. Otherwise, you're just talking about what Deo is promising, not what he's delivering.
NUFAN
Y no Afghanistan flag
I would consider picking both Deonarine and Nash if the conditions suit. So that's Gayle Barath Sarwan Chanderpaul Deonarine Nash Bravo Ramdin as the top 8 with hopefully Taylor, Roach and Edwards.
Numbers 4 to 7 may not bat in this order, it would depend on how many overs Deonarine and Bravo would be bowling.
Numbers 4 to 7 may not bat in this order, it would depend on how many overs Deonarine and Bravo would be bowling.
shivfan
Banned
That's exactly what I would pick too....
I think Bravo and Ramdin are too inconsistent with the bat to bat higher than seven and eight.
Given that Edwards is out for the year, I believe a spinner is essential, probably Benn, for Tests, at least.
WindieWeathers
International Regular
Your accusation is a complete fallacy without foundation Mike, i'm merely saying that because Nash plays for Jamaica the posters from that part of the caribbean are not prepard to look at anyone else but Nash, how is that "anti Jamaican"?
sometimes you have to look at WHAT'S BEST FOR THE TEAM, the Aussie test is long gone now, Jerome Taylor got a 100 in NZ so does that mean he should come in at five? of course not BECAUSE IT WOULDN'T BE CONDUCIVE TO THE TEAM, which is why i believe it should be either Shiv or Nash, NOT BOTH, Deo has earned the right to be in the side with his performances in both Australia and against Zim, plus as i've been stressing from the start he offers something to our bolwing department.
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WindieWeathers
International Regular
Erm Deo had an in and out start to his test career and is just 26 years old, what was Nash doing at that age?
I'm sorry, but that's a laughable suggestion....
Deonarine - five Tests, average 29.
Nash - 12 tests, average 39.
Right now, nash is clearly the better player. When Deo lives up to his potential, and averages higher than Nash, than you can say so. Otherwise, you're just talking about what Deo is promising, not what he's delivering.
he's been much better than Nash in FC cricket recently and it's obvious to anyone who's actually been watching him play that he's stepped up a level, you can live in the past if you wish but the bottom line is Deo has much more in his make-up than Nash.
shivfan
Banned
I'm sorry, Windie, but those arguments in favour of Deo are nothing short of laughable!
until Deo's test stats are better than Nash's, then Nash is a better test player than Deo....
End of story.
Up to now, Deonarine has shown promise. But little more than that. He has yet to notch up a Test century, for example. Until that happens, and until he gets his Test average close to 40, then he is just a player with potential. Any talk of him replacing Nash in the side is just a joke!
You don't weaken a Test side by replacing a batsman who was your second most prolific scorer in your last Test series because you think another batsman 'looks better'. Thankfully, Gibson has more sense than that....
If you'd taken the approach of Nufan, who's suggestion is far better thought out, then your argument would've held more water. When you look at Nufan's lineup, you will see he's dropped Bravo and Ramdin to seven and eight, to accommodate both Nash and Deonarine. That makes more sense, because both Bravo and Ramdin have disappointed with the bat in their Test careers to date.
Bravo only averages 32 with the bat from 34 Tests, and there's no way that someone with that record should be batting at six. And we all know Ramdin's record with the bat....
until Deo's test stats are better than Nash's, then Nash is a better test player than Deo....
End of story.
Up to now, Deonarine has shown promise. But little more than that. He has yet to notch up a Test century, for example. Until that happens, and until he gets his Test average close to 40, then he is just a player with potential. Any talk of him replacing Nash in the side is just a joke!
You don't weaken a Test side by replacing a batsman who was your second most prolific scorer in your last Test series because you think another batsman 'looks better'. Thankfully, Gibson has more sense than that....
If you'd taken the approach of Nufan, who's suggestion is far better thought out, then your argument would've held more water. When you look at Nufan's lineup, you will see he's dropped Bravo and Ramdin to seven and eight, to accommodate both Nash and Deonarine. That makes more sense, because both Bravo and Ramdin have disappointed with the bat in their Test careers to date.
Bravo only averages 32 with the bat from 34 Tests, and there's no way that someone with that record should be batting at six. And we all know Ramdin's record with the bat....
shivfan
Banned
On the contrary, you're belittling the quite good arguments being put forward by other posters by accusing posters of being parochial....Your accusation is a complete fallacy without foundation Mike, i'm merely saying that because Nash plays for Jamaica the posters from that part of the caribbean are not prepard to look at anyone else but Nash, how is that "anti Jamaican"?
That is a cheap shot, and totally unfair, given the strong arguments being put forward in favour of Nash. It is especially distasteful when you ridicule the posters for being Jamaican, when you don't state where your platform lies. What are your origins, Windie? Which Caribbean region do you come from?
It's only fair that you tell us, since you're so quick to make that parochial accusation of Jamaicans defending Jamaicans....
WindieWeathers
International Regular
I'm sorry but your argument is getting more feeble with every response Mike!!I'm sorry, Windie, but those arguments in favour of Deo are nothing short of laughable!
until Deo's test stats are better than Nash's, then Nash is a better test player than Deo....
End of story.
Up to now, Deonarine has shown promise. But little more than that. He has yet to notch up a Test century, for example. Until that happens, and until he gets his Test average close to 40, then he is just a player with potential. Any talk of him replacing Nash in the side is just a joke!
You don't weaken a Test side by replacing a batsman who was your second most prolific scorer in your last Test series because you think another batsman 'looks better'. Thankfully, Gibson has more sense than that....
If you'd taken the approach of Nufan, who's suggestion is far better thought out, then your argument would've held more water. When you look at Nufan's lineup, you will see he's dropped Bravo and Ramdin to seven and eight, to accommodate both Nash and Deonarine. That makes more sense, because both Bravo and Ramdin have disappointed with the bat in their Test careers to date.
Bravo only averages 32 with the bat from 34 Tests, and there's no way that someone with that record should be batting at six. And we all know Ramdin's record with the bat....
, so it's all about "stats" now? ok then Marlon Samuels's ban ends in May so according to your logic he should replace Nash straight away right? because he's got more 100's, more 50's and has overall scored way more runs than Nash at test level, and to top it off he's three years younger , The bottom line is Deo is the man in form right now who will only get better with experience, you talk about "Gibson" like you know the man!!
, if you really think he won't have been impressed with Deo's performances of late then your living in the clouds Mike, and i find your comment about Bravo interesting, wasn't he one of the few along with Barath and Gayle to get a 100 for us against Australia? in the very same tests you use to justify Nash's inclusion in the side? nah never!! 
WindieWeathers
International Regular
Oh so your accusations have changed from me being "anti jamaican" to being "distasteful" now? keep going Mike maybe one day you'll make up your mind!!On the contrary, you're belittling the quite good arguments being put forward by other posters by accusing posters of being parochial....
That is a cheap shot, and totally unfair, given the strong arguments being put forward in favour of Nash. It is especially distasteful when you ridicule the posters for being Jamaican, when you don't state where your platform lies. What are your origins, Windie? Which Caribbean region do you come from?
It's only fair that you tell us, since you're so quick to make that parochial accusation of Jamaicans defending Jamaicans....
, as for your other question, to be brutally honest it's nobody's business where i'm from and i'm not here to post my biography, i support WI and that's all you need to know.
shivfan
Banned
Exactly, roseboy....
They are two different formats of the game, Windie.
On the first point, it's a poor point to be accusing posters of supporting Nash just because they're Jamaican when you don't declare your own background. That kind of discussion belongs on a parochial site. I'm sure you can find some threads on caribbeancricket.com that are low enough for that kind of discussion. If it's nobody's business where you're from, then do the decent thing, and stop accusing other posters of parochialism in their support of Nash. We can rely on you to do the decent thing, right?
Secondly, I have always maintained that stats are one of the most important criteria for discussion. If you'd done your research, you'd see that Samuels' stats are not that impressive. What's his average in Test cricket? Also, he's been out of cricket for a while now. He needs to play for Jamaica first, and earn a callup to the WIndies side, just like everyone else....
thirdly, I don't know Gibson, but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that there's no way he would follow your line of half-baked thinking when it comes to Test selections!
Fourthly, Bravo and Barath were inconsistent with the bat on the tour Down Under. Both scored 104 runs each, with Barath averaging 34 and Bravo 29. That tour average was inferior to Nash's, which was 41. Nash outperformed both Barath and Bravo with the bat during that tour. End of story....
So, if you are really going to discuss Deonarine coming into the side to replace someone, then clearly Nash is not that man.
They are two different formats of the game, Windie.
On the first point, it's a poor point to be accusing posters of supporting Nash just because they're Jamaican when you don't declare your own background. That kind of discussion belongs on a parochial site. I'm sure you can find some threads on caribbeancricket.com that are low enough for that kind of discussion. If it's nobody's business where you're from, then do the decent thing, and stop accusing other posters of parochialism in their support of Nash. We can rely on you to do the decent thing, right?
Secondly, I have always maintained that stats are one of the most important criteria for discussion. If you'd done your research, you'd see that Samuels' stats are not that impressive. What's his average in Test cricket? Also, he's been out of cricket for a while now. He needs to play for Jamaica first, and earn a callup to the WIndies side, just like everyone else....
thirdly, I don't know Gibson, but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that there's no way he would follow your line of half-baked thinking when it comes to Test selections!
Fourthly, Bravo and Barath were inconsistent with the bat on the tour Down Under. Both scored 104 runs each, with Barath averaging 34 and Bravo 29. That tour average was inferior to Nash's, which was 41. Nash outperformed both Barath and Bravo with the bat during that tour. End of story....
So, if you are really going to discuss Deonarine coming into the side to replace someone, then clearly Nash is not that man.