Murali to retire from Test Cricket

[Cruxdude]

CoachesInfo.com- sports science information for coaches - The Biomechanics of Illegal Bowling Actions in Cricket

An interesting article.

 

[Sanz]

I do but its on a Video tape I'm afraid...

I accept cricket videos via regular mail.

 

[Top_Cat]

Didn't the 15 degrees rule used to be a couple degrees lower, around 12 or so, meaning that Murali failed it? Can someone clear this up. I'm not really sure at all

From memory, only Murali's doosra would have breached 12 degrees.

The initial limits before testing were pretty ludicrous anyway; 10 for quicks, 7.5 for meds, 5 for spinners. A few problems with this;

1) What constitutes fast/medium/slow in cricket is obviously always up for debate. There'd be plenty of variation in bowlers above 140Km/h yet most people would bracket them in the category of 'fast'
2) Bowling speed and arm speed have different properties and arm speed relates more directly to elbow flexion. Warne's and McGrath's arm speeds were similar despite being of vastly different pace rendering the above pretty much useless. As far as I'm aware, bowling speed and elbow flexion didn't vary significantly with each other anyway
3) As it turns out, arm speed only accounts for part of the flexion anyway, joint flexibility isn't taken into account by the above.
4) Didn't account for hyper-extension

The 15 degree limit was arbitrarily determined by consensus (not science) to be the point at which illegal flexion becomes visible. Needless to say, many people don't like this.

Personally there's a lot more of the science to explore but as far as cricket goes, it appears to be a dead issue. Murali is legal. Note that we're talking about flexion here, not hyper-extension. This is largely because it's considered involuntary.

 

[vic_orthdox]

Before the fifteen degree rule there was a rule stipulating that 10 was the limit for fast bowlers, and 5 for spinners. Another test in 2004 proved that 99% of bowlers were beyond this limit. so this new rule was adopted to keep all the bowlers from being called for chucking.

Thought it was that 99% of bowlers had flexion, with Sarwan being the only one without any degrees to speak of.

 

[Cruxdude]

Thought it was that 99% of bowlers had flexion, with Sarwan being the only one without any degrees to speak of.

I am not too sure. I have linked an article that you could read if you are interested.

 

[andyc]

How can that be, players have to be tested in the nets because they cant test them in real time on the pitch. Otherwise we could just look at the footage of any bowler and would not need to wire them up. Unless they got all the players in the nets (Ihave not heard of this) or this 99% of bowlers is pure guess work.

ICC study reveals that 99% of bowlers throw | Cricket News | Global | Cricinfo.com

Going to side with the biomechanic scientists on this one.

 

[Migara]

No, anybody who makes stupid comments like that about Warne and those who defend them are just wankers.

But one's who makes same comments about Murali regarded as OK or acceptable? Or is it plain and ugly double standards?

 

[Migara]

Whoa, hang on there champ. I'm absolutely on Murali's side and under the 15 degree rule, associated testing, etc. he doesn't breach it. However, the 15 degrees itself is a fairly arbitrary cut-off point and not everyone will agree with it. There's no objective definition of what constitutes a chuck.

Good. Then bash the law, not Murali. If a new law comes, test everyone with it as well. Then it's fair.

 

[Migara]

How can that be, players have to be tested in the nets because they cant test them in real time on the pitch. Otherwise we could just look at the footage of any bowler and would not need to wire them up. Unless they got all the players in the nets (Ihave not heard of this) or this 99% of bowlers is pure guess work.

It's an estimation with some margin of error. But even after allowing for the distortion, it was evident that 99% chuck under previous law.

 

[Migara]

So theoretically then, they could have changed the rules in order to accommodate players with suspect actions like Murali?

McGrath and Pollock were found to extend it up to 12 degrees. Even the ones with best actions were found to be "chuckers" under the old law.

even bowlers like Glenn McGrath and Shaun Pollock, usually considered examplars of the classical action, occasionally go over the prescribed tolerance limit, bending their arms by as much as 12 degrees.

 

[Sir Alex]

Streetwise upto his usual troll and stuff, wonder why the mods have not yet pulled him up on this.

 

[Streetwise]

ICC study reveals that 99% of bowlers throw | Cricket News | Global | Cricinfo.com

Going to side with the biomechanic scientists on this one.

13 bowlers out of 23 = 99%

No wonder no person put their name to this article.

Research was also undertaken during the ICC Champions Trophy in England, where it was found that 13 of the 23 bowlers filmed straightened their arms more than the current permissible levels.

 

[Migara]

13 bowlers out of 23 = 99%

No wonder no person put their name to this article.

This is intellectual dishonesty. It clearly shows these are from two studies. One from a ICC panel, and other from a bio mechanics research. Streetwise' bias have clearly made him susceptible to "selective amnesia" so he has forgotton to mention that these are from two studies.

 

[Streetwise]

This is intellectual dishonesty. It clearly shows these are from two studies. One from a ICC panel, and other from a bio mechanics research. Streetwise' bias have clearly made him susceptible to "selective amnesia" so he has forgotton to mention that these are from two studies.

Migara, can you show the results where 99% of bowlers throw.

Actually show the results from both studies that show that 99% of bowlers throw.

 

[Migara]

Migara, can you show the results where 99% of bowlers throw.

Actually show the results from both studies that show that 99% of bowlers throw.

Extensive research conducted by the International Cricket Council is set to reveal that 99% of bowlers in the history of cricket have been throwers

Shows this was done retrospectively, by analyzing video footage. Further confirmation given by

even the likes of Fred Trueman, Dennis Lillee, Curtly Ambrose, Imran Khan, Richard Hadlee, and Ian Botham were found to have exceeded the straightening-limit set by the ICC.

The second study obviously is done recently, published in well reputed journals. There it says 13 / 23 exceeded 10 degrees. (Not 7.5 or 5).

Now where did I say both studies showed that 99% of bowlers chuck?

 

[Migara]

And you selective amnesia just showed that you completely ignored that mcGrath and Pollock also chucks under the old law.

 

[Streetwise]

And you selective amnesia just showed that you completely ignored that mcGrath and Pollock also chucks under the old law.

Did murali chuck under the old law when he was reported.

You know when the umpire called him was he chucking.

 

[Streetwise]

This is intellectual dishonesty. It clearly shows these are from two studies. One from a ICC panel, and other from a bio mechanics research. Streetwise' bias have clearly made him susceptible to "selective amnesia" so he has forgotton to mention that these are from two studies.

You can restore your honesty by showing the results where it shows 99% of bowlers chuck.

 

[Jono]

Why are you doing this?

 

[Jono]

Youtube comments make me weep for humanity, before gouging out my own eyes and trying to drown myself in lemon juice.

Pretty bad yeah.