*Official* Road to the 2010/11 Ashes

[NUFAN]

What would be the sense in manufacturing a middle-order batsman into an opener in order to manufacture a manufactured opener back into a middle-order batsman?

Why not just leave Jaques, who has been a successful manufactured opener for a good few years now, as he is?

Well there are only 2 opening spots not 4. Katich is good enough that he will not mind in the slightest moving down to number 3. Shane Watson is a star opener now, so I don't really see the point in moving him either considering he opens for Australia in all 3 formats.

As Hughes is ahead of Jaques especially on recent form, if NSW had to pick the best team they should have Watson and Hughes open.

Anyways NSW isn't quite Australia yet so it doesn't really matter.

My original main point was that you said Watson doesn't open for his state. He's not had an opportunity to play for his state yet as he's basically too good for State Cricket so you can't say for sure that he wouldn't open, considering he does for his country.

 

[zaremba]

What would be the sense in manufacturing a middle-order batsman into an opener in order to manufacture a manufactured opener back into a middle-order batsman?

Why not just leave Jaques, who has been a successful manufactured opener for a good few years now, as he is?

I am now going to scoop my eyes out with a spoon just to keep myself sane

 

[Richard]

Well there are only 2 opening spots not 4. Katich is good enough that he will not mind in the slightest moving down to number 3. Shane Watson is a star opener now, so I don't really see the point in moving him either considering he opens for Australia in all 3 formats.

As Hughes is ahead of Jaques especially on recent form, if NSW had to pick the best team they should have Watson and Hughes open.

Anyways NSW isn't quite Australia yet so it doesn't really matter.

My original main point was that you said Watson doesn't open for his state. He's not had an opportunity to play for his state yet as he's basically too good for State Cricket so you can't say for sure that he wouldn't open, considering he does for his country.

So essentially your argument is "he should open for NSW because he opens for Australia"?

I'd argue "he's never opened for NSW, NSW have a couple of established opening batsmen, so Watson should bat four".

 

[Richard]

I am now going to scoop my eyes out with a spoon just to keep myself sane

Only desperate times call for desperate measures.

 

[NUFAN]

So essentially your argument is "he should open for NSW because he opens for Australia"?

I'd argue "he's never opened for NSW, NSW have a couple of established opening batsmen, so Watson should bat four".

I'm saying Watson should open for NSW because he is one of the best openers, highlighted recently in the Test arena, (you know that place where Jaques wishes he was playing) while Jaques is definitely not showing signs that he's one of the two best openers. Jaques has struggled big time this year, averaging a shade under 40.

Now the fact that Watson and Katich are more versatile cricketers compared with Phil Jaques might mean NSW might just keep the same openers, but it's a pretty strange move making both the Australian openers bat out of position - remember I'm talking about a full strength team where obviously Clarke is in your top 6 and Haddin could easy bat at 6 too.

Next year there is a 2 or 3 week period before the first Ashes Test that I think the Australian Test players will be available to play state cricket, do you think it's wise to make the Australian openers prepare for Test Cricket batting in a different position?

 

[Richard]

OK, a couple of things - Jaques may have disappointed relatively speaking this year, but there's no way averaging a shade under 40 is "struggling big-time". And when it comes to making people bat out-of-position, Australia are the ones who are doing that by having Watson and Katich open, not NSW by not doing. NSW comes before Australia - thus NSW (and other domestic sides) have more of a say in what a player is than Australia do.

And there is no way any domestic assocation should remotely be dictated to by what the national selectors are doing.

 

[NUFAN]

OK, a couple of things - Jaques may have disappointed relatively speaking this year, but there's no way averaging a shade under 40 is "struggling big-time". And when it comes to making people bat out-of-position, Australia are the ones who are doing that by having Watson and Katich open, not NSW by not doing. NSW comes before Australia - thus NSW (and other domestic sides) have more of a say in what a player is than Australia do.

And there is no way any domestic assocation should remotely be dictated to by what the national selectors are doing.

That's of course if you look just at an average. I've only seen him bat once at the Gabba this season in a first class match (seen him in ODs though more often) but always read match reports and the like and it's plain as day he's struggled.

P Hughes 56.71
U Khawaja 60.62
S Smith 65.57

Plus the 3 Australians batsman plus keeper S Watson, S Katich, M Clarke, B Haddin should make the best NSW full strength lineup.

Also I completely disagree that any domestic assocation should be dictated by what the selectors are doing,

NSW always try and get as many players into the Australian team, so there isn't really much point in getting the 2nd regular NSW opener game time in front of players like Smith and Khawaja when the main spot up for grabs in the Aussie setup is the number 6 position.

FTR I realize Khawaja is injured at the moment..

 

[NUFAN]

So Richard, lets say you've been given the job to select a NSW team at full strength to play in a Shield Final, who makes your top 7 in batting order?

 

[vic_orthdox]

Pretty sure that Jaques has spoken of how he is a manufactured opener, always preferred batting in the middle order but saw that the opening for NSW was at the top so started working on that.

 

[archie mac]

Pretty sure that Jaques has spoken of how he is a manufactured opener, always preferred batting in the middle order but saw that the opening for NSW was at the top so started working on that.

Same as Bobby Simpson. I imagine it is hard to find too many players who only opened all of their career. Not really sure what we are all arguing here?

the words "who cares!" comes to mind

 

[Richard]

Pretty sure that Jaques has spoken of how he is a manufactured opener, always preferred batting in the middle order but saw that the opening for NSW was at the top so started working on that.

Jaques is a manufactured opener, there's no doubt about that - and naturally if he'd prefer to drop back to three\four with Watson and Katich moving up to open then that's a different matter. I'd always rather presumed he'd liked opening though.

 

[Richard]

So Richard, lets say you've been given the job to select a NSW team at full strength to play in a Shield Final, who makes your top 7 in batting order?

I wouldn't like to say I've followed this season with enough attention-to-detail to give a full answer. Maybe I'll come back to you when I've looked back on it a bit.

 

[NUFAN]

I wouldn't like to say I've followed this season with enough attention-to-detail to give a full answer. Maybe I'll come back to you when I've looked back on it a bit.

Can't say that I'm not surprised.

Anyways 1. Watson 2 Hughes 3 Katich 4 Jaques 5 Clarke 6 Haddin 7 Smith would be my NSW top 7 with Khawaja terribly unlucky.


Looking forward to the Ashes.

 

[wfdu_ben91]

Pretty sure that Jaques has spoken of how he is a manufactured opener, always preferred batting in the middle order but saw that the opening for NSW was at the top so started working on that.

Wonder why Australia didn't pick him a few seasons back for the middle-order slot when he was running havoc where ever he went.

 

[Neil Pickup]

I have now paid for flights halfway round the world in order to be in Melbourne and Sydney next Christmas. We had better not have lost this series before I get there...

 

[Goughy]

I have now paid for flights halfway round the world in order to be in Melbourne and Sydney next Christmas. We had better not have lost this series before I get there...

Trying to organise my stuff right now. I cant be away for Christmas and my kids birthday so it looks like the first Test for me.

 

[Richard]

I have now paid for flights halfway round the world in order to be in Melbourne and Sydney next Christmas. We had better not have lost this series before I get there...

If you substitute "lose the series" for "have no chance of holding The Ashes"... when was the last time that didn't happen?

Answer: 1994/95, when the MCG and SCG Tests were the Second and Third. And you and me were but 9 years old.

 

[morgieb]

If you substitute "lose the series" for "have no chance of holding The Ashes"... when was the last time that didn't happen?

Answer: 1990/91, when the MCG and SCG Tests were the Second and Third. And you and me were but 5 years old.

Wasn't that the same case in 1994/95?

 

[flibbertyjibber]

Can't wait for it,think it will be tight as the Aussies aren't as good as they think they are and England are improving all the time.Actually i think the series could come down to 2 players on each side,Johnson and Hauritz for Australia and Broad and Swann for England.

Johnson and Broad are very similar in the fact that they are just as likely to bowl utter dross as they are a matchwinning spell and out of both sides they are the most likely matchwinning pace bowlers.It will come down to which one of them has more good than bad spells through the series.The daft thing with both of them is that they are likely to have one of each on the same day,possibly even the same session they are that unpredictable.

As for the spinners,well i think both pace attacks will struggle to get 20 wickets so the spinners not only have to keep an end tight as both sides have plenty of erratic bowlers but they also have to take their share of wickets.Swann is the better bowler and probably a better allround cricketer but what Hauritz lacks in ability he more than makes up for in effort.

Both sides have good batting line ups but both have an ability to collapse ridiculously when not expected to,you only have to look back to last summer to see that on both fronts.Not sure who has the edge in batting as there are enough weak links in both sides.One thing is certain though both teams have dodgy glovemen who could decide a game with an error.

I remember a year ago all the Aussies telling us that Johnson and Siddle would cause as much pain as Lillee and Thommo did years ago and that was a load of rubbish in the end,no doubt we will be hearing the same this time about Bolly knickers.The Aussie fans were lucky to have the great side of the 90's onwards but to try and say any of the current lot are anywhere near that level is a false statement and the thing is England know that so will go there fancying their chances of retaining the urn and i wouldn't be at all surprised if we did.

 

[NUFAN]

If Hauritz performs as well as Swann all of Australia will be extremely happy!

Both teams match up well against each other, Dougie Bollinger could end up being the key.