Will West indies and Pakistan ever recover?

[andyc]

Phil Hughes?

TBF he was scoring bucketloads of runs for NSW at the time, and the selectors were looking for a long-term replacement at the top of the order for Hayden, which is why they went Hughes over Jaques or Rogers.

 

[slippyslip]

TBF he was scoring bucketloads of runs for NSW at the time, and the selectors were looking for a long-term replacement at the top of the order for Hayden, which is why they went Hughes over Jaques or Rogers.

And I think selecting Rogers as a medium term replacement for Hayden while Hughes did his two years in first class cricket would have been the best solution.

Now we has Watson warming the spot while Hughes is doing the hard work in first class that anyone with half a brain realised he should have done before he made the test team.

 

[NUFAN]

The match scorecard can be found here.

This page is looking great, I really should use it more.

EDIT: I just found a mistake in the records, who can I tell to get it fixed?

 

[Craig]

This page is looking great, I really should use it more.

EDIT: I just found a mistake in the records, who can I tell to get it fixed?

Manju or Rose.

 

[roseboy64]

You implied that the seniors should be given "years" to get their form right, that sounds like they would be "undroppable" to me, the cases of Ponting and Hussey are different to ours because even if they are off form more often than not Australia still get results, us on the other hand don't.

No I said it can't go on for years. Mistake in understanding what I meant I guess.

 

[shivfan]

I don't think the West Indies will reproduce anything near the world-conquering generation of Lloyd, Richards, Holding and Marshall that I grew up watching in the 1980s....

At least, not with this current generation of players, including gayle, Sarwan and Bravo. Shiv's days are nearly up. However, as Richard said, results in Tests are imporving - in fits and starts - from what it was in the dire days of Lara's later captaincy....

The new generation of Brathwaite and HOlder, etc, have the potential to take this improvement a step further, but I think the best the Windies can strive for is to compete at mid-table for now.

We're still waiting on the generation that will take the WI back to top of the pile, IMHO....

 

[Richard]

TBF he was scoring bucketloads of runs for NSW at the time, and the selectors were looking for a long-term replacement at the top of the order for Hayden, which is why they went Hughes over Jaques or Rogers.

Though Jaques was never remotely in consideration at the time Hughes got picked?

 

[Xuhaib]

First I owuld like to correct the OP Pakistan under Inzi was actually pretty strong and held an upperhand or even hand with every one barring Aus and that was a tenure of 4 years after WC 03.The problems started once Malik took over and combined with other uncontrollable factors things have gone down hill.

seccondly the type of domestic structure we have it was only a matter of time before the talent pool dried up for atleast a period. However I am quite hopefull that once the National cricket acadamy (NCA)graduates make their presence felt at the FC circut things will improve.Aamir and Umer are from the first batch of NCA and some of their other graduates (Umer Amin, Nasir Jamshed) look class apart from the other FC cricketers.Also 80% of the U-19 squad this time were NCA trainees and most looked really impressive.

 

[WindieWeathers]

No I said it can't go on for years. Mistake in understanding what I meant I guess.

Didn't you say this on page four?

Gayle, Chanderpaul, Sarwan, Nash, Bravo and Taylor have performed at domestic and international level and so are more than deserving of their places even if they go through bad patches. Only if that patch continues for years would it make sense to drop them

I swear sometimes people don't even read what they type!!

 

[WindieWeathers]

I don't think the West Indies will reproduce anything near the world-conquering generation of Lloyd, Richards, Holding and Marshall that I grew up watching in the 1980s....

At least, not with this current generation of players, including gayle, Sarwan and Bravo. Shiv's days are nearly up. However, as Richard said, results in Tests are imporving - in fits and starts - from what it was in the dire days of Lara's later captaincy....

The new generation of Brathwaite and HOlder, etc, have the potential to take this improvement a step further, but I think the best the Windies can strive for is to compete at mid-table for now.

We're still waiting on the generation that will take the WI back to top of the pile, IMHO....

Wasn't you waxing lyrical about our youth in the 'youngsters to watch' thread on CMS the other day Mike? imo the current bunch coming through are as good as we've produced for years, comparing them to Viv, Holding, Marshall etc isn't fair because those guys are some of the best cricketers to ever play the game, the current bunch have a chance of being top class imo, and if they mature right then i'd be amazed if we aren't competing at the top end of world cricket within four years.

 

[roseboy64]

Didn't you say this on page four?



I swear sometimes people don't even read what they type!!

Yeah. I don't see your point though? I'm counting a year as say all of last year and poor performance going into this year would be going into the years category.

 

[WindieWeathers]

Yeah. I don't see your point though? I'm counting a year as say all of last year and poor performance going into this year would be going into the years category.

YOU SAID WE SHOULDN'T DROP THEM FOR YEARS even if they are in poor form!!, that's my point!!, it was your words man not mine .

 

[Ilovecric]

Interesting thread, but I think within the next 18 months if WI is at full strenght with Edwards, taylor, and roach playing then they should be able to beat any team. I don't think Aussie players are as good as people would like to think, they had a good winning streak because they played a depleted WI team. A bowling attack of Rampaul, roach, benn, bravo isn't the strongest attack and the AUS made them it seem superb.

Chris gayle's batting all by himself had them in trouble in two test, one they hung onto and the other they barely won - robbing roach's wicket while doing it too. Total sham actually.

In the ODIs AUS studied gayle and decided only his wicket mattered - and ofcourse this tatic woked like a charm - WI missing 7 players - all their bowlers actually So ofcourse they won easily.

There are just some hints on how good a team is, having the ability to take full advantage and toally outplay a team - AUS wasn't able to do that against WI and a weak Pakistan.

The most memorable moment of the entire series was ponting coming out to bat after getting hit by roach, and he came out so upset that he had to bat again with an injury even tho AUS was suppose to have the game all sewed up - They got bowled out for 150 after facing only 51 overs in the second innings (bravo and benn taking the wickets) after scoring over 500 in the first innings. So after being in such a good position because WI only made 312 in their first innings, AUS was now in trouble - in the end WI lost the game by 35 runs with bravo making 1, gayle making 22 and srwan making 11. So it's these small points you look at to tell the strenght of a team - a team that can't dominate an extremely weaken WI team. A full strenght WI team is favourite to beat any team right now in world cricket. They just need to not make alot of changes, fix wicket-keeper batsman issue, and hopefully sarwan can do better away.

Gayle
Barath
Sarwan
Chanderpaul
Nash
Bravo
Ramdin
Taylor
Benn
Roach
Edwards

 

[Goughy]

Thats a World beating team?

 

[Ilovecric]

Thats a World beating team?

I hope we get to find out.

A team similar to it beat England, Sri Lanka, and South Africa recently.

 

[roseboy64]

YOU SAID WE SHOULDN'T DROP THEM FOR YEARS even if they are in poor form!!, that's my point!!, it was your words man not mine .

And obviously you're not understanding what I meant by that.

 

[Craig]

Thats a World beating team?

In all fairness, could you pick a better team?

 

[WindieWeathers]

And obviously you're not understanding what I meant by that.

What did you mean then? that we shouldn't drop them after years of poor form then? you're confusing yourself Roseboy!! .

 

[Goughy]

In all fairness, could you pick a better team?

No, but that want the point. It was said that that was possibly the best team in the world not just the best team available for WI. Big difference.

 

[Jigga988]

WW you contradict yourself... alot.

Regarding the thread, Windies will recover if recover means be somewhere around mid-table... To be fair our pace attack does seem to have very good potential, but the reality is that it's unlikely Edwards and Taylor will be fit together for an extended amount of time considering their history with injuries. If that did happen to come about there's definitely a chance of a recovery...

Our batting seems pretty short, with Brathwaite looking a good prospect but needing time. The likes of Nash and currently Deonarine are not test class, but at the same time must play due to the paucity of good Windies batsmen, wouldn't mind seeing more of Darren Bravo in ODI's, when I've seen him he looks very good.

Regarding the potential argument btw, being good at U19 level clearly has no bearing on international level as it does with any sport - Use tennis or football for an example - Monfils won three of the four junior grand-slams in a year at junior level and is yet to have any where near that impact in real... Jody Morris was always touted as the best of a young crop of english footballers, but again hasn't really proved anything... My point is, you can do all you like in U19 level but that doesn't necesserily dictate that you'll be good in the future.