So is India safe to tour or is it just a media beat-up?

[Fusion]

Nah, you think there'll be any shortage of a random militant group putting out a press release? Doubtful. That's what it took.

Well one reason is that it gives the terrorist swine an annual opportunity to make announcements.

Announcements don't equal credible threats though. I would assume that when the player's association conducted their threat assessment, they didn't just go by a press release some randomn nut job put out. I would hope they investigated the threat to determine if it was credible and whether the terrorists were likely to carry out an attack. Again, I personally believe India is safe to tour. But I haven't done a through threat assessment (nor am I in a position to conduct one). I still don't see why the players can't be given an opportunity to make up their minds on a year by year basis. Let them feel completely secure to tour. Don't forget that if they skip out on a given year they also lose out on a **** load of money, so they're not going to take that decision lightly.

 

[Sanz]

Correct me if I'm wrong but isnt the players association responsible for putting forward the players concerns and what you are saying is that the players input into their own safety is useless.

FICA are not wrong in raising the player concern. They are wrong in forcing the players to show solidarity on boycotting the IPL.

IPL anxiety erupts in player feud, heavyweights clash with Ricky Ponting | The Australian

"That's something we are still working through, it's the way we have operated in the past and I guess we have a couple of weeks to work through that,"

That's dishonest way of presenting the Players' concern.

Should the players just blindly do and accept whatever the people who are interested only in profit ask them to do.

Ofcourse not. If you have read the thread, not a single Indian member has said that the Players should tour India even if they are uncomfortable with the security situation. IMO players should not tour India if they feel unsafe.

 

[Sanz]

Nah, you think there'll be any shortage of a random militant group putting out a press release? Doubtful. That's what it took.

Well one reason is that it gives the terrorist swine an annual opportunity to make announcements.

But the current threat is not only about Mr. Illiyas Kashmiri's thread alone, is it ? We have just had a terrorist blast in Pune, In Mumbai Sena Goons have been threatening, in Hyderabad Deccan goons have said they will not allow IPL, there is some Naxal fight going on as well. Overall the security situation is indeed grim for someone not from the subcontinent.

That said, Players have a choice to not tour same way IPL owners have a choice too. I dont think any step from either side should be considered harsh, it is a business afterall.

 

[jeevan]

Announcements don't equal credible threats though. I would assume that when the player's association conducted their threat assessment, they didn't just go by a press release some randomn nut job put out. I would hope they investigated the threat to determine if it was credible and whether the terrorists were likely to carry out an attack. Again, I personally believe India is safe to tour. But I haven't done a through threat assessment (nor am I in a position to conduct one). I still don't see why the players can't be given an opportunity to make up their minds on a year by year basis. Let them feel completely secure to tour. Don't forget that if they skip out on a given year they also lose out on a **** load of money, so they're not going to take that decision lightly.

Let's see how this one came about: Someone bombs a very soft target - a bakery in Pune. Four groups allegedly contact some member of the press to take claim (that's how many I've seen, ad none of the reporters involved is top tier, far as I can tell). One of them being this Ilyas Kashmiri, who goes off on a rant that ends in Hockey World Cup, Commonwealth games and IPL. For all we know, this journalist character could've made it up, there aren't any hard clues in there.

Even if the journo didnt make it up, it isn't hard to bomb a bakery and send an email in someone's name. Seriously, I think anyone can do it.

I don't pretend to know what the optimal solution is, and I certainly don't support a 'you're for us or against us' type of lifetime ban. (I'm for Pakistani players playing IPL 3 too, btw).

Just that an annual ritual of playing "And who thinks the water is too hot this year?" gives these guys exactly what they want. One guess is a strict sounding policy with lots of nudge, nudge wink,wink exceptions isn't really fair but might be workable. Anything that doesn't provide the terrorists with a cheap platform (actually attacking in IPL match is going to be much much harder than the sequence of events above.)

 

[jeevan]

But the current threat is not only about Mr. Illiyas Kashmiri's thread alone, is it ? We have just had a terrorist blast in Pune, In Mumbai Sena Goons have been threatening, in Hyderabad Deccan goons have said they will not allow IPL, there is some Naxal fight going on as well. Overall the security situation is indeed grim for someone not from the subcontinent.

That said, Players have a choice to not tour same way IPL owners have a choice too. I dont think any step from either side should be considered harsh, it is a business afterall.

BTW, by now Bal Thackeray has "withdrawn" his threat. Thackeray withdraws threat to Aussies participation in IPL 3- Hindustan Times

 

[Streetwise]

FICA are not wrong in raising the player concern. They are wrong in forcing the players to show solidarity on boycotting the IPL.

If you look at it sensibly this is the only way to actually let the players themselves make the decision. If some players just cashing in on the money decide to go which allows the IPL to blackmail the players by threating to ban them in the future. (You must admit that by putting future punishments on the players if they dont attend now after being given a security report advising them against playing is not making the issue simply a security issue.) If all the players make a united decision then the threat of future punishment at the hands of the IPL is negated which means the players make the decision.

People who are in unions will understand why its important that the players are the ones making the decision without threats.

 

[Sanz]

The point is not that Mr. Thackeray has withdrawn his threat but that it has raised enough awareness about a potential threat against Aussie players. It does not matter if it has been withdrawn or not.

 

[four_or_six]

It's so wrong, the way Modi slags off players left right and centre. His comments about Ponting yesterday were unbelievably childish and totally unprofessional.

 

[Sir Alex]

It's so wrong, the way Modi slags off players left right and centre. His comments about Ponting yesterday were unbelievably childish and totally unprofessional.

Welcome to the Modi way of business... Not exactly a first.. but it gets things done.

 

[Sanz]

If you look at it sensibly this is the only way to actually let the players themselves make the decision. If some players just cashing in on the money decide to go which allows the IPL to blackmail the players by threating to ban them in the future.

You are making assumption here that (some) Players are going only because of the money otherwise they would not tour India for IPL. There is a tour currently going on in India and that must count for something for those who are willing to tour India. And I don't see what is wrong with the Player himself making that decision.

Also the World Cup is going to happen in the Subcontinent too, is the FICA going to persuade players to do a mass boycott of the tournament ?

(You must admit that by putting future punishments on the players if they dont attend now after being given a security report advising them against playing is not making the issue simply a security issue.) If all the players make a united decision then the threat of future punishment at the hands of the IPL is negated which means the players make the decision.

IPL is a business and I don't understand why should any corporate be allowed to invest in an entity that is not going to guarantee its participation. Players have all the right to refuse to tour at the same time IPL has all the rights to reject these players from future program. IPL is right in looking for its own interest and so are the players.

If FICA really wants to be fair then they should focus on an honest approach as opposed to forcefully presenting a solidarity front. I wait to see their approach for the World Cup 2011 and any future tour of India by the Aussie team.

 

[Cruxdude]

When the Indian government promises full security and IPL also pledges the same obviously some players will feel it is worth going to India. Trying to force everyone to quit is not right and obviously Modi will complain.

 

[Streetwise]

It's so wrong, the way Modi slags off players left right and centre. His comments about Ponting yesterday were unbelievably childish and totally unprofessional.

I would love to see him commentate with Gavaskar in the world cup when/if Australia play India especially if Aus lose, man that would be something.

 

[Sir Alex]

I would love to see him commentate with Gavaskar in the world cup when/if Australia play India especially if Aus lose, man that would be something.

Healy would be a better option to commentate with Gavaskar. I wish they strangle each other till boht break their voice chords and the world of cricket would be better for it.

 

[Streetwise]

If FICA really wants to be fair then they should focus on an honest approach as opposed to forcefully presenting a solidarity front. I wait to see their approach for the World Cup 2011 and any future tour of India by the Aussie team.

Do you think its an honest approach by the IPL to threaten future discrimination if they dont go on security issues.

They could call them untouchables eh.

 

[Sanz]

It's so wrong, the way Modi slags off players left right and centre. His comments about Ponting yesterday were unbelievably childish and totally unprofessional.

Like Ponting and ACA have been the professionals through this.

TBH, IPL and Modi have been used by the Aussie Cricket Association to dismantle the threat of ICL. There was a real threat of top Cricketers from Australia switching their loyalties to the ICL. They used IPL to break ICL.

Modi did raise some fair points :-

"Australia tour to India in October - will Australian players association dictate them not coming then? Doubt it.
"South African players - touring India as we speak - security is fine for them now as provided by the Government. All happy now.
"How will that situation change in two weeks - so what's the motivation about these issues being raised now is the question one needs to ask.
"Aussies arrived at the end of the tournament in 1st and 2nd season. This year too they are due to arrive in the last two weeks."


I bet you will ignore all that and just concentrate on individual in charge.

 

[Streetwise]

Like Ponting and ACA have been the professionals through this.

TBH, IPL and Modi have been used by the Aussie Cricket Association to dismantle the threat of ICL. There was a real threat of top Cricketers from Australia switching their loyalties to the ICL. They used IPL to break ICL.

Modi did raise some fair points :-

"Australia tour to India in October - will Australian players association dictate them not coming then? Doubt it.
"South African players - touring India as we speak - security is fine for them now as provided by the Government. All happy now.
"How will that situation change in two weeks - so what's the motivation about these issues being raised now is the question one needs to ask.
"Aussies arrived at the end of the tournament in 1st and 2nd season. This year too they are due to arrive in the last two weeks."


I bet you will ignore all that and just concentrate on individual in charge.

Where has Ponting and/or CA been unprofessional? (I havent read anything about it)

Yesterday SA captain Smith wasnt so happy

Graeme Smith, the South Africa captain, has said his country's ongoing tour of India is not an indicator that the players who are scheduled to feature in the IPL in March are comfortable with security arrangements for the tournament.
Players concerned about IPL security - Graeme Smith | Cricket News | Global | Cricinfo.com

 

[jeevan]

If you look at it sensibly this is the only way to actually let the players themselves make the decision. If some players just cashing in on the money decide to go which allows the IPL to blackmail the players by threating to ban them in the future. (You must admit that by putting future punishments on the players if they dont attend now after being given a security report advising them against playing is not making the issue simply a security issue.) If all the players make a united decision then the threat of future punishment at the hands of the IPL is negated which means the players make the decision.

People who are in unions will understand why its important that the players are the ones making the decision without threats.

IPL is not, and was never intended to be the primary employer of any of the players. Certainly not the foreign stars. If any of them think the risk is too high, don't take it and don't either party make a big deal of it. The IPL threat of a longer ban too is not that material, the situation next year is likely to be no different. If it is not worth the $ this year, it will not be worth the $ next year either (and some nice bonus $ to augment your nest egg is all we're talking about, it isn't their livelihoods).

That's why I see that you have a coherent union argument that might be appropriate to someone's livelihood and primary employer situation, but it doesn't apply to IPL. I might agree with you if IP twisted the arm of some other national cricket board and tied central contracts from them to attending IPL. Clearly is not the case.

Fringe Indian players (like Kamran Khan mentioned previously) are probably dependent on IPL for their main income (possible reality) , but I don't think FICA covers them.

 

[Sanz]

Do you think its an honest approach by the IPL to threaten future discrimination if they dont go on security issues.

Do you think the players will reduce their salaries in order to cut the losses of the IPL owners ? How many players took (or willing to take) a pay cut when the IPL was moved to SA last year ?

They could call them untouchables eh.

I doubt it. It really depends on the Player. I doubt Players like Shane Warne, Adam Gilchrist, Hayden and Lee will ever be declared untouchables. It really depends on the marketability of the Players. Warne, Lee etc will always draw interest, otoh for folks like Hodge, Martyn etc this is the last chance to make some easy buck and they will not be back ever again.

 

[Streetwise]

TBH, IPL and Modi have been used by the Aussie Cricket Association to dismantle the threat of ICL. There was a real threat of top Cricketers from Australia switching their loyalties to the ICL. They used IPL to break ICL.


.

Just like they used the NBL to cripple the WI.

 

[Sanz]

Where has Ponting and/or CA been unprofessional? (I havent read anything about it)

Ponting and ACA have been trying to sabotage the IPL by trying to put up a fake solidatity front and forcing the players to do so. If one player boycotts IPL, everyone of them. And it is anybody's guess that Ponting is going to boycott the IPL. If that is not unprofessional then what is ?

Yesterday SA captain Smith wasnt so happy

Smith as an individual has all the right to question the security. He is not calling for solidarity among the SA players.