*Official* South Africa in India

[G.I.Joe]

*clicks view post*

It's not that much different. Everyone is just like "WTF aussie" and you end up clicking view post to see what they're getting so angry about anyway.

yeah, I see what you mean

 

[Black_Warrior]

Not a fair & accurate reflection this.

AUS team in the 08 series was indeed in disarray & transition. Any fair minded person could have predicted AUS without McGrath/Warne would have lost in India 08 long before the series began. That was made even worse by the fact when AUS suffered injuries to bowlers like Lee, Clark (which probably was part of reason these two didn't get reverse-swing during that series like Khan & Sharma) & McGain before/during the series. Added to the that Johnson still had not peaked & Siddle/Watson/Krejza where on debut & the idiotic selectorial decision to pick Cameron White as main spinner. AUS bowling resources where severely depleted & was never capable of taking 20 wickets in that series.

Defiantely lucky not to have lost at least 2-1 to SA recently. In the capetown last day, if De Wet wasn't unfit to bowl & Smith didn't have to bowl Steyn/Morkel into the ground, i certainly believe SA would have won.

Thank you mate..I had a really tiring day and read your post and I cant stop laughing now at the sheer idiocy! Are you really being serious or mucking around?
Do you realize with that kind of logic(?) you can literally dismiss every series defeat of your own team? I can say, Australia's 3-0 victory over Pakistan can easily be dismissed because Pakistan are in transition after the retirement of Saeed Anwar, Salim Malik, Javed Miandad, Inzamam ul Haq, Wasim Akram, Waqar Younis, Saqlain Mushtaq, Mushtaq Ahmed, Moin Khan and

If Mohammad Yousuf was not such a terrible batsman and captain
if only Kamran Akmal did not drop those catches
if only Shoaib Akhtar was fit for this tour...

These are all baseless statement. Point is, in international cricket, you go out there to perform with your best 11 possible, if they cant perform for whatever reason and lose the series, you accept it like a reasonable man like I have accepted Pakistan's repeated series defeats against most sides. Learn to open up your vision a little bit and stop being petty!!

Ponting approach was not defensive by any means in that 4th test. He was just adhering to what the match referee told him & was forced into bowling part-timers on that 4th day of that 4th test. If he could have kept bowling the main bowlers (mainly the fast bowlers) he certainly would have.

I have had this discussion with other Australians on this forum too. I strongly disagree with this. I dont care how much you are fined, how slow your overrate is. Nothing should be more important than winning a test match when you are on the field. All those other factors, you can worry about later once you have won the test match.

forget dravid and laxman. with sehwag, sachin, dhoni and gambhir in the line up, any team should be able to make a fight of any test match anywhere. it is the failure of the bowlers that SA posted an imposing first innings total. that wrecked india, combined with steyn's fabulous fast bowling, which should rightfully be ranked alongside imran's 12 wkt sydney effort 35 years ago, ambrose's 7 fer in perth, harmison's 7 for 12 in the carribean, marshall's one-handed 7 fer in headingly, holding's 13 wkt haul in '76, and hadlee's 9 fer down under, as one of the greatest modern fast bowling performances in an overseas test. hats off dale.

PS: Add akhthar's 5 for 16 in colombo vs australia to that list even though pakistan went on to lose the test

Totally agree...very well said.. I just saw the Steyn spell on youtube..totally amazed by it.. Makes me feel really good about test cricket!

india doesnt deserve to be no.1 for long. ian chappell got it right when he mentioned about the lack of match winning bowlers. they certainly deserved to get to the top coz they managed to beat enough top teams enough number of times in a reasonably long period. but they equally deserve to lose the crown after a while to a team with better bowling strength. there is no doubt india, south africa and australia are pretty closely packed right now but SA deserve the crown for a while at least. once rahul and sachin retire india are likely to slip down to the england, new zealand standard.

I agree that they wont last at no1 for too long. The main reason for that is, they reached the number 1 position at a time when their best players, Tendulkar, Dravid, Laxman are all on the wrong side of 30 with maximum 2-3 years of competetive cricket left. Compare that with Australia when they started their run in 99, Ponting, McGrath, Langer, Hayden, Martyn, Gilchrist, all had about 6-7 years of cricket left atleast.
I dont think the bowling is that bad to be honest..it was a flat pitch and Kallis and Amla cashed in on it. Steyn produced an extraordinary spell of fast bowling that was too good and too classy for newcomers like Vijay, Badrinath and Saha. Had Dravid, Laxman been there, maybe they would have avoided the follow on. But no point making excuses..injuries are part of the game and South Africa deserves to win this one.

Cullinan vs. Siva on Sachin vs. Ponting is some of the worst commentary I've listened to in a while.

Really? what were they saying? Is Manjrekar in the commentary team?

 

[Black_Warrior]

I am glad Sachin got his 100 today although it will prove to be inconsequential. But I am glad that a year from now, when CW would be debating Sachin vs Ponting or Sachin vs Lara, it will be slightly harder to bring up his "poor" record against SA and relatively lower second innings average,

 

[Sir Alex]

These are all baseless statement. Point is, in international cricket, you go out there to perform with your best 11 possible, if they cant perform for whatever reason and lose the series, you accept it like a reasonable man like I have accepted Pakistan's repeated series defeats against most sides. Learn to open up your vision a little bit and stop being petty!!

I have had this discussion with other Australians on this forum too. I strongly disagree with this. I dont care how much you are fined, how slow your overrate is. Nothing should be more important than winning a test match when you are on the field. All those other factors, you can worry about later once you have won the test match.


I agree that they wont last at no1 for too long. The main reason for that is, they reached the number 1 position at a time when their best players, Tendulkar, Dravid, Laxman are all on the wrong side of 30 with maximum 2-3 years of competetive cricket left. Compare that with Australia when they started their run in 99, Ponting, McGrath, Langer, Hayden, Martyn, Gilchrist, all had about 6-7 years of cricket left atleast.

Excellent excellent points mate.

 

[Stapel]

I am glad Sachin got his 100 today although it will prove to be inconsequential. But I am glad that a year from now, when CW would be debating Sachin vs Ponting or Sachin vs Lara, it will be slightly harder to bring up his "poor" record against SA and relatively lower second innings average,

To spoil your fun: One might argue that a reply of 7 and 100 is not impressive if others have just scored 173 and 253 not out....

 

[Briony]

To spoil your fun: One might argue that a reply of 7 and 100 is not impressive if others have just scored 173 and 253 not out....

And surely greater weight is placed on winning tons. Good innings by Sachin but it was also after a follow-on when the bowlers would have had some sting taken out of them. In every analysis you have to go beyond the raw figures.

 

[Sir Alex]

Indian middle and lowre order doing their best to atone for their first innings failure. It is such a pity our top order just couldn't do it apart from Sehwag and Tendulkar.

 

[Stapel]

I figure Steyn gets the MotM award if he grabs 10 wickets. Otherwise, probably Amla for his 253 not out.

 

[aussie]

Thank you mate..I had a really tiring day and read your post and I cant stop laughing now at the sheer idiocy! Are you really being serious or mucking around?
Do you realize with that kind of logic(?) you can literally dismiss every series defeat of your own team?

No you can't dismiss every series defeat of your own team based on what i said. If your team is good enough to win they will win. If they they play poorly they will be defeated.

But at the same time in cricket history when teams 9 times out 10 when up againts legendary teams (WI of the 70s & 80s, AUS 95-2006, ENG 51-58). Or tricky destinations i.e toruing IND & SRI in the last 15 years to battle Kumble/Harbhajan/Vaas/Murali. Its impossible to beat such teams, unless your team has all the bases covered. Which as you should historically many opposition teams have not.

:I can say, Australia's 3-0 victory over Pakistan can easily be dismissed because Pakistan are in transition after the retirement of Saeed Anwar, Salim Malik, Javed Miandad, Inzamam ul Haq, Wasim Akram, Waqar Younis, Saqlain Mushtaq, Mushtaq Ahmed, Moin Khan and

If Mohammad Yousuf was not such a terrible batsman and captain
if only Kamran Akmal did not drop those catches
if only Shoaib Akhtar was fit for this tour...

HAAAAAAAA Utter Nonsense & you want to tell me what i just said is idiotic?? How is god's name is me stating quite fairly the AUS team in 2008 IND tour in transition did not have the tools to win that series LONGGGGG before the series began. Compares to this madd rant you have made about the PAK team here???

Pakistan aren't in transition right now. They came out of transition ages ago & have settled into what we call a team of inconsistent cricketers, since the talented players of the 90s disappeared. There is so signs that they have the capability in the current squad of returning back to what they where in the 90s. They are a average, inconsistent & unpredictable side which is why will will lose most times to major countries. So AUS beating them can't be dismissed since it not as if this current PAK playing to potential would have won in AUS recently - if they where playing at their best.

Yousuf is not a terrible batsman. He was just exposed on the recent tour to AUS as FTB by some good bowling.

Akmal's drop catches indeed cost PAK the MCG test. But its not as if PAK would have won the series.

AFAIK Akthar was never in contention of touring PAK.

Australia on the other hand after the 95-2006/07 glory years ended. Are still in transition ATM. Unlike PAK one can safely saying AUS gradually can get back to level close to what they where between 95-2006/07 in the near future.

:These are all baseless statement. Point is, in international cricket, you go out there to perform with your best 11 possible, if they cant perform for whatever reason and lose the series, you accept it like a reasonable man like I have accepted Pakistan's repeated series defeats against most sides. Learn to open up your vision a little bit and stop being petty!!

Sterotyping suites everyone so well doesn't it??

In international cricket not because you go out a play an opposition with your best XI means you will have success in all conditions. Your best XI may only be good in some conditons - but poor in other conditions.

Using the example fo IND 08 series again. Its is historical FACT that you need certain facets in your overall team structure to win in India since IND became a force at home - if you dont have these facets you will lose. Those facets are having a quality pace-attack capable of taking 20 wickets & batting-lineup not vulnerable againts spin.

AUS in 2008 where in transitition with the loss of McGrath/Warne did not have an attack
capable of taking 20 wickets like when they won in 2004 - thus where NEVER likely to win in IND 2008. Thats not being petty & unreasonable - thats accepting fundamental facts about cricket.

:I have had this discussion with other Australians on this forum too. I strongly disagree with this. I dont care how much you are fined, how slow your overrate is. Nothing should be more important than winning a test match when you are on the field. All those other factors, you can worry about later once you have won the test match.

You seem to be underating how important the ICC code of conduct is then. The match-referee gives an ultimatum, it was Ponting job to adhere to it. Him bowling his main-bowlers & desrespecting that although he could have done so, would not have been right.

CricketAustralia accepted Ponting explanation, so you people need to stop mischaracterising what Ponting did in Nagpur 08 test.

 

[GIMH]

Well done Saffa, well done Steyn

 

[TazzX]

Spanked.

Please come again ...

 

[NUFAN]

I don't get all the moaning about not declaring - it's the first innings. Does anyone actually think that if India bat for the rest of the game they won't get 554 runs? The important declaration is the one South Africa will make in the second innings - if they declared earlier they'd just have to bat longer later (likely on a more uneven pitch too, mind) as there's no risk of India scoring less than 500 runs and saving the game anyway.

Haha, 552 runs.

 

[Prince EWS]

Haha, 552 runs.

They didn't bat for the rest of the game though - there's still over a day left. That was my point.

 

[ret]

Getting bowled out for a low score in the first inning of the first test is becoming pathetic. Against BD, we could bowl them out too so it didn't matter that much but against strong teams, it's going to bite you

Good to see Viru and Ten getting tons, others should have stepped up but can't blame because of the inexperience in the side. The team selection was horrible and it was time Dhoni payed for his mistakes in form of his first test loss as a captain

And ofc, well played SA. Steyn was the top gun


In short, 1st inning blues + inexperienced middle order + poor team selection + bad batting + ordinary bowling + (Bhajji) + ordinary fielding + ordinary captaincy + Steyn = SA win

Unless the boys want to strike back in the next game, we can gift wrap the #1 ranking and give it to SA with love

 

[Black_Warrior]

To spoil your fun: One might argue that a reply of 7 and 100 is not impressive if others have just scored 173 and 253 not out....

LOL thats why I said in a year's time..when people would only be looking at the stats in the hot debates.



Aussie, my post about Pakistan team was sarcastic..sorry I did not make that clear!

 

[Howsie]

Not a fair & accurate reflection this.

AUS team in the 08 series was indeed in disarray & transition. Any fair minded person could have predicted AUS without McGrath/Warne would have lost in India 08 long before the series began. That was made even worse by the fact when AUS suffered injuries to bowlers like Lee, Clark (which probably was part of reason these two didn't get reverse-swing during that series like Khan & Sharma) & McGain before/during the series. Added to the that Johnson still had not peaked & Siddle/Watson/Krejza where on debut & the idiotic selectorial decision to pick Cameron White as main spinner. AUS bowling resources where severely depleted & was never capable of taking 20 wickets in that series.

Ponting approach was not defensive by any means in that 4th test. He was just adhering to what the match referee told him & was forced into bowling part-timers on that 4th day of that 4th test. If he could have kept bowling the main bowlers (mainly the fast bowlers) he certainly would have.

AUS won in South Africa 09 because they had a improved bowling attack in bowler-friendly conditons. Unlike the IND 08 series the likes of Johnson & Siddle as i said before where either still in his developing stage (Johnson) & Siddle (on debut) - those two basically became test quality/peaked during that series. Different circumstances to IND 08series.

So overall one has to dismiss IND win over AUS 08 due to these circumstances.


.

Oh, now I see why your've got such a bad rep around here

 

[NUFAN]

They didn't bat for the rest of the game though - there's still over a day left. That was my point.

The game is over, so yeah they did bat for the rest of the game.

I just thought it was funny that they were only 2 runs away from the number you mentioned.

 

[honestbharani]

loving the attention ATM..All of this is baseless by the way

yep.. 3 diff. ppl in a matter of minutes.. obviously baseless!!

 

[honestbharani]

Well done South Africa!!! Deservedly No.1 the next time the rankings come out, I reckon!!



Steyn's spell was just Godly!! Sachin's 100 was nice but you juz got the feeling of an inevitability here..


And the thing with Saha shows why in those Draft threads people tend to under rate a team with 10 good but 1 bad player.. Put any batter in there instead of Saha in that batting line up and it suddenly looks so much better.


PS: The said player may or may not have done better than Saha but at least in terms of prospects, it is much better when you have a batsman of some decent pedigree there...

 

[ret]

PS: The said player may or may not have done better than Saha but at least in terms of prospects, it is much better when you have a batsman of some decent pedigree there...

One of the ways to answer that is to assume that Saha scored 50 in both the innings, would things have been different? If no, then their was a slightly bigger problem somewhere else. I think Dhoni should have stepped up in batting, Gambhir could have done better too (but can't blame him for failing after doing well consistently in so many tests)