Michael Clarke Discussion thread

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Clearly overrated, as evidenced by the fact that he has his own discussion thread, full of people rating him highly and lowly.

 

[dikinee]

His Test batting is seriously overrated, not so much that he should be dropped but his far from one of the better batsman in world cricket. The thing about Michael Clarke is that he has never done anything great. He was on the verge of doing something great in the 2nd Test of the Ashes, when he scored that 100, but he got out soon after. Had Australia won that match or had lost by 10-20 runs, with Clarke making 180-200 then he could've been well on his way to being a Ponting, Chappell, Border, Waugh or Hayden. BUT as it is, he only got half the job done and will most likely never be seriously comparable to past Australian greats.

Name one other Australian player under 30 who has 13 test centuries 17 50s and an average better than 50.

edit. PS at the same stage in his career Ponting had 9 centuries.

 

[wfdu_ben91]

Name one other Australian player under 30 who has 13 test centuries 17 50s and an average better than 50.

edit. PS at the same stage in his career Ponting had 9 centuries.

Yeah, picking up the leftovers after Hayden, Langer, Ponting, Hussey have all made runs - all of whom, are better batsmen then Clarke.

 

[Sir Alex]

TO suggest Clarke is not suitable for tests is incredibly naive. He has his own deficiencies, perhaps he'd never make a "great" but he surely is indispensable today. However in ODIs and T20s I reserve my judgement.

 

[pasag]

What are Clarke's Test deficiencies? He can play spin very well, has developed a very good technique against the moving ball and has little trouble against pace in general and the shorter ball. His defence is rock solid and pretty much his only issues is his constant getting out in the last over of the day (doesn't do it anymore) and the ability to get him out by bowling a meter outside off stump for two hours.

 

[wfdu_ben91]

TO suggest Clarke is not suitable for tests is incredibly naive. He has his own deficiencies, perhaps he'd never make a "great" but he surely is indispensable today. However in ODIs and T20s I reserve my judgement.

I was never suggesting dropping him, but merely suggesting that he isn't one of the best Test batsman in the world. His not even in the top 10. I reckon Shane Watson's a better shout at being an alltime Australian great batsman then what Clarke is, given that Watson can stay injury free.

 

[Sir Alex]

What are Clarke's Test deficiencies? He can play spin very well, has developed a very good technique against the moving ball and has little trouble against pace in general and the shorter ball. His defence is rock solid and pretty much his only issues is his constant getting out in the last over of the day (doesn't do it anymore) and the ability to get him out by bowling a meter outside off stump for two hours.

He obviously must have his own problems or he wouldn't be averaging less than 50 innit? He has problems like the waft outside off stump (which is a common one), slight issues with his temperament, (after blocking scores, suddenly jumps out premediated at a delivery resulting in his own innings demise), suspect against class swing bowling... none of these are glaring and are more or less common across all batsmen, but the sum of such deficiencies add up in his case.

 

[Sir Alex]

I was never suggesting dropping him, but merely suggesting that he isn't one of the best Test batsman in the world. His not even in the top 10. I reckon Shane Watson's a better shout at being an alltime Australian great batsman then what Clarke is, given that Watson can stay injury free.

That Watson would end up with a better record than Clarke is possible provided he plays most of his cricket against substandard bowling lineups. However that is not the truth. Watson is going to be found out against quality seam/swing bowling, temperamental issues and his inability to play decent spin.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

He obviously must have his own problems or he wouldn't be averaging less than 50 innit?

Probably why he doesn't.

 

[wfdu_ben91]

That Watson would end up with a better record than Clarke is possible provided he plays most of his cricket against substandard bowling lineups. However that is not the truth. Watson is going to be found out against quality seam/swing bowling, temperamental issues and his inability to play decent spin.

I doubt he'll come across many bowlers better or as good as Mohammad Asif and he did a hell of allot better against Asif then what Clarke did.

 

[Sir Alex]

Probably why he doesn't.

My mistake. I got his and KP's stats all jumbled up in my mind. Still those numbers don't suggest he is a super test batman with no obvious weaknesses.

 

[pasag]

He obviously must have his own problems or he wouldn't be averaging less than 50 innit? He has problems like the waft outside off stump (which is a common one), slight issues with his temperament, (after blocking scores, suddenly jumps out premediated at a delivery resulting in his own innings demise), suspect against class swing bowling... none of these are glaring and are more or less common across all batsmen, but the sum of such deficiencies add up in his case.

He does average 50 and 57 since his recall. I don't think you have a case and he's the best player of class swing bowling in the side, IMO. Or are you going off his batting pre-dropping?

 

[Sir Alex]

I doubt he'll come across many bowlers better or as good as Mohammad Asif and he did a hell of allot better against Asif then what Clarke did.

Haha courtesy how many dropped catches? Also has he ever performed in the subcontinent? Or look likely to with his deer-in-the-headlights approach to spin bowling?

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

his inability to play decent spin.

This. He looked so nervous against the likes of Benn. Would like to see how he does against a better spinner, in conditions for it.

 

[pasag]

My mistake. I got his and KP's stats all jumbled up in my mind. Still those numbers don't suggest he is a super test batman with no obvious weaknesses.

He doesn't have any obvious weaknesses, but he's not a "super Test batsmen" either. IMO he's one of the best in the world, but has a long way to go if he wants to be remembered in history and he really needs to a couple of MoYo 2006s to get there where he really feasts on the bowling.

 

[Sir Alex]

He does average 50 and 57 since his recall. I don't think you have a case and he's the best player of class swing bowling in the side, IMO. Or are you going off his batting pre-dropping?

Pasag, just clarifying do you mean to say Clarke is without any weaknesses whatsoever? That I disagree. As to your point that he is averaging 57, that only strengthens my argument that he is one of the undroppables in the current Aussie side. In fact perhaps the first name on the sheet.

Edit - Just read the above post.

 

[Sir Alex]

He doesn't have any obvious weaknesses, but he's not a "super Test batsmen" either. IMO he's one of the best in the world, but has a long way to go if he wants to be remembered in history and he really needs to a couple of MoYo 2006s to get there where he really feasts on the bowling.

Well that shows about 95% agreement as to our ideas about Clarke the test batsman. His weaknesses are "common" and not "glaringly obvious". Perhaps those might become glaring once his current purple run ends. A real test will be when he will have to take up the mantle of both the prime batsman and captaincy from Ponting, and when he no longer would have the comfort of Hussey at the other end.

 

[wfdu_ben91]

Haha courtesy how many dropped catches? Also has he ever performed in the subcontinent? Or look likely to with his deer-in-the-headlights approach to spin bowling?

He performed well against Pakistan in the ODI's in the subcontient. Have to wait and see how he goes on his future tours of the subcontient, now that he has found his feet at Test level.

he really needs to a couple of MoYo 2006s to get there where he really feasts on the bowling.

Don't think that feasting on weak bowling attacks will enhance his cause much further.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

In terms of pure performance, Clarke's scored the 9th most runs of anyone in the world since his recall (in 2006). The second best Australian on the list, behind Ponting, but averaging 7 more than him.

List of batsmen with 2000+ runs since April 2006

 

[Sir Alex]

He performed well against Pakistan in the ODI's in the subcontient. Have to wait and see how he goes on his future tours of the subcontient, now that he has found his feet at Test level.


Don't think that feasting on weak bowling attacks will enhance his cause much further.

When did he play Pakistan in the subcontinent?

He indeed played in India in 2008 and impressed me more as a bowler than a batsman. He often looked a walking wicket, unsure of going on the front foot or back foot and often choosing the wrong option in the end. But his bowling was world class in that tour and is horribly underrated.