Ball tampering, does every team do it?

[Goughy]

How so? There's a specific stipulation that 15 overs must be bowled once the last day of a Test reaches 1 hour before the scheduled close.

but.it.gets.dark

 

[Debris]

Why do I get the feeling this argument is split firmly down the lines of those who support sides caught tampering with the ball and those who don't

 

[Son Of Coco]

I have - I just don't feel the problems are actually problems. Me, I don't have any objection to the prospect of the bowlers changing the ball whenever they want to - batsmen can do such with their bats.

Until bats come with a trigger though I don't see how a batsman changing his bat is as big an advantage as a bowler getting a new ball whenever he wants. The batsman doesn't gain any advantage from a new bat that enables him to perform his craft any better. There's a marked difference between bowling with a new ball and bowling with an old ball.

I also think you'd find that if a batsman started taking the piss and changing his bat 'whenever he wanted' and not when it was broken etc then the umpire would put a stop to it fairly quickly. You can't exactly change bats every 2 overs without attracting some form of negative attention.

You kids of today...when the going gets tough you want something new handed to you on a platter

 

[social]

but.it.gets.dark

 

[dikinee]

Until bats come with a trigger though I don't see how a batsman changing his bat is as big an advantage as a bowler getting a new ball whenever he wants. The batsman doesn't gain any advantage from a new bat that enables him to perform his craft any better. There's a marked difference between bowling with a new ball and bowling with an old ball.

I also think you'd find that if a batsman started taking the piss and changing his bat 'whenever he wanted' and not when it was broken etc then the umpire would put a stop to it fairly quickly. You can't exactly change bats every 2 overs without attracting some form of negative attention.

You kids of today...when the going gets tough you want something new handed to you on a platter

Well said.

 

[Richard]

but.it.gets.dark

And teams who aim to delay with the aim of trying to get play called-off thanks to inadequate light have all sorts of potential tactics to use on the rare occasion the chance arises, many of which are seen on said rare occasions. They don't need another.

And anyway it's not like it gets dark 5 minutes after the scheduled close very often. Only in Pakistan and some parts of India is bad light a consistent problem, elsewhere there's generally still plenty of daylight left after scheduled closes. Bad light problems usually come from overcast weather, and apply at any time of day.

 

[Richard]

Until bats come with a trigger though I don't see how a batsman changing his bat is as big an advantage as a bowler getting a new ball whenever he wants. The batsman doesn't gain any advantage from a new bat that enables him to perform his craft any better. There's a marked difference between bowling with a new ball and bowling with an old ball.

I also think you'd find that if a batsman started taking the piss and changing his bat 'whenever he wanted' and not when it was broken etc then the umpire would put a stop to it fairly quickly. You can't exactly change bats every 2 overs without attracting some form of negative attention.

You kids of today...when the going gets tough you want something new handed to you on a platter

Ind33d. And if said reasonable standards applied to balls as well I don't see that there'd be a problem... but as I said at the start it's really not too important because the suggestion of mine is not serious or one I remotely expect to see implemented.

 

[Richard]

Why do I get the feeling this argument is split firmly down the lines of those who support sides caught tampering with the ball and those who don't

Because the ideals of those who "tamper" with balls are similar to their supporters, thus those who support, and play for, teams with a prevailing attitude of "there's nothing wrong with a bit of aiding the ball to swing" will tend to "tamper" more and thus get caught more. Those who support, and play for, teams with a prevailing attitude of getting high-and-mighty about the slightest hint of touching the ball tend to "tamper" less and thus get caught less.

Egg came before chicken, however much it might seem nice to believe chicken came before egg.

 

[zaremba]

Egg came before chicken, however much it might seem nice to believe chicken came before egg.

Ah, but did chicken egg come before chicken?

 

[Richard]

Before egg-chicken y'mean?

 

[Faisal1985]

Any fancy justifications for this action?

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Any fancy justifications for this action?

I don't get it. Are you try to make this a Pakistan v England thing?

 

[zaremba]

Any fancy justifications for this action?

It's not a question of justifying it, but proving that it wasn't ball tampering is pretty easy. Anyone who knows the first thing about cricket knows that if you're going to ball-tamper you don't do it by gently trapping a rolling ball with your foot. If you do it hard enough to damage the ball (which Broad didn't) there's a 50-50 chance you'll get the wrong side and ruin your side's chances of getting either conventional or reverse swing.

 

[Faisal1985]

It's not a question of justifying it, but proving that it wasn't ball tampering is pretty easy. Anyone who knows the first thing about cricket knows that if you're going to ball-tamper you don't do it by gently trapping a rolling ball with your foot. If you do it hard enough to damage the ball (which Broad didn't) there's a 50-50 chance you'll get the wrong side and ruin your side's chances of getting either conventional or reverse swing.

Boy, i don't know what you are saying here, it wouldn't be easy to measure the "force" applied by Broad on the ball by sitting in front of the TV , the point is to make one side rough which Afridi was trying to achieve via biting and Broad via stepping on the ball and trying to rough it up with those spikes......

And no this is not meant to be an Eng vs. Pak thing....since we are discussing ball tempering then discuss other events as well....

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Boy, i don't know what you are saying here, it wouldn't be easy to measure the "force" applied by Broad on the ball by sitting in front of the TV , the point is to make one side rough which Afridi was trying to achieve via biting and Broad via stepping on the ball and trying to rough it up with those spikes......

It's not as easy as you think roughen up the correct side of the ball by that method. If Broad was trying to tamper with it, he's just horrible at doing so. Should probably have taken matter into his hands...and mouth.

 

[Julian87]

The teams I have played in haven't. Might be something to do with the fact that all of thos teams have been from Australia and we want to win fair, not cheat... There has been one instance where an Indian bloke playing for one of my teams tried to rough the ball up and the captain plus about three of us told him to stop being a dickhead.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

So you're saying Australians are less prone to cheating?

 

[zaremba]

Boy, i don't know what you are saying here, it wouldn't be easy to measure the "force" applied by Broad on the ball by sitting in front of the TV , the point is to make one side rough which Afridi was trying to achieve via biting and Broad via stepping on the ball and trying to rough it up with those spikes......

And no this is not meant to be an Eng vs. Pak thing....since we are discussing ball tempering then discuss other events as well....

You have completely ignored my main point which as Mr Mxy observes is that if you are trying to ball tamper the first thing you need to do is to work out which side of the ball you're trying to rough up, and you then rough that side up and protect the other side. Try stopping a rolling cricket ball with your foot and making sure you hit the right side (hit the wrong side, or the seam, and you'll ruin the whole thing). The odds are so stacked against you, it wouldake no sense to do it.

As for how much force he applied, well there's no way of knowing for sure, but judging by the TV footage there seemed to be hardly any force at all.

 

[zaremba]

So you're saying Australians are less prone to cheating?

We're getting into dangerous territory here. But it's fair to say that different practises are treated differently in different cultures and I just don't think ball tampering is nearly as common in some places as others.

I would be amazed if an Aussie or West Indian or Indian ever did what Shahid Afridi did to the ball this week or to the pitch in 2005/06.

Pakistan players have a worse reputation for ball tampering not because of some defamatory conspiracy against them but because they've been caught doing it more than anyone else. And it seems fair to infer that they've been caught more often because they do it more often.

Lots of sweeping generalisations, I know, and I've no stats to back them up, but I think I'm right all the same.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Sorry, I didn't mean to presume any generalisations. I just wanted some clarification on this bit:

thos teams have been from Australia and we want to win fair, not cheat