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Ball tampering, does every team do it?

So does every team tamper with the ball


  • Total voters
    45

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
So anyone who doesn't share your viewpoint is an ignoramus?
No, no - but there are a whole lot of ignoramuses out there and plenty of them don't share my viewpoints. So inevitably, while there's a hell of a lot of cases where that does indeed apply, it isn't something which is automatically the case.
 

Scaly piscine

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Adrian Griffith
Matt Horne
Floyd Reifer
Martin Guptill
Runako Morton
Dave Joseph
Denesh Ramdin (wk)
Shane Warne (c)
Curtly Ambrose
Glenn McGrath
Courtney Walsh

...would probably have a similar record to...

Matthew Hayden
Virender Sehwag
Ricky Ponting (c)
Sachin Tendulkar
Brian Lara
Jacques Kallis
Adam Gilchrist (wk)
Ashley Giles
Nixon McLean
Daren Powell
Sajid Mahmood

...after 10 matches IMO. The key is balance of batting and bowling. Neither is more important than the other.
In Test cricket bowling is definitely more important. Whilst in 50 overs cricket batting is more important.
 

G.I.Joe

International Coach
No, no - but there are a whole lot of ignoramuses out there and plenty of them don't share my viewpoints. So inevitably, while there's a hell of a lot of cases where that does indeed apply, it isn't something which is automatically the case.
So Richard, lets discuss the difference between the ignoramuses that do not share your viewpoint on bowling needing to dominate/ achieve parity with bat, and the non-ignoramuses who happen to believe the same as said ignoramuses.
 

Mr Mxyzptlk

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In Test cricket bowling is definitely more important. Whilst in 50 overs cricket batting is more important.
Not buying it. Balance, for mine. Poor bowlers at least as likely to get poor batsmen out as great batsmen to score against great bowlers.
 

silentstriker

The Wheel is Forever
Adrian Griffith
Matt Horne
Floyd Reifer
Martin Guptill
Runako Morton
Dave Joseph
Denesh Ramdin (wk)
Shane Warne (c)
Curtly Ambrose
Glenn McGrath
Courtney Walsh

...would probably have a similar record to...

Matthew Hayden
Virender Sehwag
Ricky Ponting (c)
Sachin Tendulkar
Brian Lara
Jacques Kallis
Adam Gilchrist (wk)
Ashley Giles
Nixon McLean
Daren Powell
Sajid Mahmood

...after 10 matches IMO. The key is balance of batting and bowling. Neither is more important than the other.
Id' disagree. The top might be 5-5, while the bottom might be 1-3-0-7.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
So Richard, lets discuss the difference between the ignoramuses that do not share your viewpoint on bowling needing to dominate/ achieve parity with bat, and the non-ignoramuses who happen to believe the same as said ignoramuses.
There might be all sorts of differences - one might have a blue pen in their hand, the other might have a green one. Among many other things.

How many people have you met who you'd describe as true cricket fans who think that all there is to the game is run-scoring?

In my experience true fans of the game define themselves as true fans of the game by the fact that they like relative balance between bat and ball. It's thus a self-fulfilling prophecy somewhat, like all the best prophecies.
 

Mr Mxyzptlk

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Id' disagree. The top might be 5-5, while the bottom might be 1-3-0-7.
But then judging from your history, I know we'll never agree on this. :p

Btw, this is not meant to be an insult. Just that we all know your manlove for any and all bowlers.
 
Last edited:

G.I.Joe

International Coach
Id' disagree. The top might be 5-5, while the bottom might be 1-3-0-7.
Not necessarily. The champion bowling attack isn't guaranteed to pick up 20 champion batsmen anymore than the woeful bowling attack is likely to pick up 20 woeful batsmen on a flat track.
 

G.I.Joe

International Coach
There might be all sorts of differences - one might have a blue pen in their hand, the other might have a green one. Among many other things.

How many people have you met who you'd describe as true cricket fans who think that all there is to the game is run-scoring?

In my experience true fans of the game define themselves as true fans of the game by the fact that they like relative balance between bat and ball. It's thus a self-fulfilling prophecy somewhat, like all the best prophecies.
No it isn't. You're conveniently lumping the 'wickets ftw' group alongwith the group preferring the balance between bat and ball to make your argument appear more credible.

Now,

How many people have you met who you'd describe as true cricket fans who think that all there is to the game is wicket taking?

In my experience true fans of the game define themselves as true fans of the game by the fact that they like relative balance between bat and ball. It's thus a self-fulfilling prophecy somewhat, like all the best prophecies.


See what I did there?
 

silentstriker

The Wheel is Forever
I'd back Ambrose, McGrath, Walsh and Warne to pick up 20 champion batsmen almost every time. Sometimes they'd score a decent amount though, which would mean you'd lose.

Look at how few draws Australia had during their reign. Now think about an even stronger bowling lineup than McGrath and Warne alone.
 

G.I.Joe

International Coach
I'd back Ambrose, McGrath, Walsh and Warne to pick up 20 champion batsmen almost every time. Sometimes they'd score a decent amount though, which would mean you'd lose.

Look at how few draws Australia had during their reign. Now think about an even stronger bowling lineup than McGrath and Warne alone.
The India of Zaheer, Ishant, Sreesanth, Harbhajan are ranked #1, while the Pakistan of Wasim, Waqar, shoaib and Saqlain were not.

Batsmen matter.
 

silentstriker

The Wheel is Forever
But Australia had very good batsmen...
We're talking about results though. They had good batsmen so they won mostly. Our hypothetical lineup would lose more often than Australia did. But they'd still have a result almost every game.

Batsmen matter.
Come on, you're better than that. That is not my argument - I never said they didn't. I said better bowling > better batting.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
No it isn't. You're conveniently lumping the 'wickets ftw' group alongwith the group preferring the balance between bat and ball to make your argument appear more credible.
You were the one that brought the "wickets ftw" group into things ITFP; I only mentioned the "runs ftw" group.

Honestly, the "wickets ftw" group is so small it barely registers; the "runs ftw" group on the other hand is massive.
 

Mr Mxyzptlk

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We're talking about results though. They had good batsmen so they won mostly.
Exactly. Balance.

Success in cricket is not participating in as many definitive results as possible. It's winning as many as possible. And good bowling alone isn't enough to be successful at cricket. Not any more than good batting alone is enough.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Success in cricket is not participating in as many definitive results as possible. It's winning as many as possible.
But good, and interesting, cricket is about results, not draws.

Thus the importance of quality bowling to interesting cricket is far higher than the importance of quality batting. Obviously in an ideal World you have a decent amount of both, but offered the absence of one I'd take the absence of batting any time.
 

G.I.Joe

International Coach
Come on, you're better than that. That is not my argument - I never said they didn't. I said better bowling > better batting.
I know you said that, which is what I disagree with if its meant to be accepted as a sort of theorem. We could cite examples for both sides of the argument, which if anything shows that you can't state it as such.
 

Mr Mxyzptlk

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But good, and interesting, cricket is about results, not draws.

Thus the importance of quality bowling to interesting cricket is far higher than the importance of quality batting. Obviously in an ideal World you have a decent amount of both, but offered the absence of one I'd take the absence of batting any time.
I don't disagree that bowlers are treated roughly in the game. And I definitely prefer to see the give and take of runs and wickets. But that's from a spectator's perspective. From the perspective of a team, success is winning, not winnings some, losing some, and always providing a definitive result.
 

silentstriker

The Wheel is Forever
Exactly. Balance.

Success in cricket is not participating in as many definitive results as possible. It's winning as many as possible. And good bowling alone isn't enough to be successful at cricket. Not any more than good batting alone is enough.
???


Well, good bowling > good batting in terms of winning matches.
Since the point is to win, Bowlers > Batsmen.

Meaning, if I had to choose a great batting lineup and a weak bowling lineup, or a great bowling lineup and a weak batting line up, I'd go for the latter almost every single time.

If choice C was great batsmen and great bowlers, well...duh.
 

Mr Mxyzptlk

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I really can't think of any other way to say that. But I'll try, just for you...

A balance of good batting and bowling is what you need to win in cricket. One or the other is, on a long term basis, not enough.

Therefore bowling is not > batting. Just as batting is not > bowling.
 

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