*Official* English Football Season 2009-2010

[GIMH]

They definitely were

 

[Uppercut]

What are you going by?

 

[GIMH]

I'm not going to claim sources, but I've read it plenty, and I've spoken to many people older than me who've stated it's always been that way. United aren't hated because they are successful, that is quite simply the biggest urban myth of all-time. The main reason United are hated is because of how many people in England support them with no connections to Manchester whatsoever.

 

[Uppercut]

But you live in Liverpool (ish). I've honestly not once heard anyone make that claim until now, and any reasons given for the hatred are always based on something that wasn't the case in the 70s or 80s (glory hunting fans, Ferguson being a ****, corporate sell-outs, arrogant and unbearable in their success).

 

[GIMH]

I don't live in Liverpool you ****

Anyway, I said in my last post, people hate United because they have so many supporters with no connection to the area. This has been the case since Munich as far as I know. So maybe instead of 'always' we should change it to for the last 50 years. But it's true.

And maybe you've never heard anyone make that claim, but tbf I've lived in England all my life

 

[Uppercut]

People's opinions don't count double if they're in England .

 

[grecian]

Interesting.

 

[The Sean]

I've honestly not once heard anyone make that claim until now, and any reasons given for the hatred are always based on something that wasn't the case in the 70s or 80s (glory hunting fans, Ferguson being a ****, corporate sell-outs, arrogant and unbearable in their success).

Yeah, this for me too - those are the kind of reasons (plus the old "always get the decisions" chestnut) that are always quoted to me ad nauseum for why everyone hates United and their fans.

Anyway, I said in my last post, people hate United because they have so many supporters with no connection to the area. This has been the case since Munich as far as I know. So maybe instead of 'always' we should change it to for the last 50 years. But it's true.

It's true that Munich engendered a good deal of sympathy for the club and expanded their supporter base worldwide, but it's not as though they're the only club with an international fanbase. Liverpool have a huge one, Arsenal's is strong and clubs like Chelsea and City (and most other "big" clubs) are falling over themselves to expand theirs.

Additionally I always had the impression that for a while after Munich - at least under Busby - United were rather well liked. How hated they were by the average person over here in the 70s and 80s I wouldn't claim to know, though while I'd never have thought they were a beloved national institution, I'm still surprised to hear that they were strongly despised in that time.

 

[Tom Halsey]

It definitely is. It's harder for me to come up with evidence as I've always lived in Merseyside where they've obviously always been hated. Perhaps someone like grecian can add to it. Pretty sure he's commented on how he hated Man U through those barren years.

Pretty much every source I've ever read/heard suggests they started becoming unpopular with the appointment of Ferguson in 1986 tbf, not with the start of the successful period - as you said that is an urban myth.

I've also watched lots of old matches from the 70s/80s on old reruns of MOTD and so on, and it's hard to detect any particular animosity towards United from those games - other than Liverpool, Leeds, City games obviously.

 

[Uppercut]

Ferguson was never popular obviously, but the moment that really instilled the widespread hatred, I've always been told, was the 9 minutes of injury time against Sheffield Wednesday in 1993.

 

[The Sean]

Ferguson was never popular obviously, but the moment that really instilled the widespread hatred, I've always been told, was the 9 minutes of injury time against Sheffield Wednesday in 1993.

Yeah, Trevor Francis remarked to Ferguson after that game that "you got your winner in the second leg."

The funniest part is that if you read Fergie's autobiography he actually says the 9 minutes was wrong and it should have been 12!

 

[GIMH]

People's opinions don't count double if they're in England .

Aside from the fact that they clearly do, someone who lives in England would be likely to be more aware of this, yes?

Yeah, this for me too - those are the kind of reasons (plus the old "always get the decisions" chestnut) that are always quoted to me ad nauseum for why everyone hates United and their fans.



It's true that Munich engendered a good deal of sympathy for the club and expanded their supporter base worldwide, but it's not as though they're the only club with an international fanbase. Liverpool have a huge one, Arsenal's is strong and clubs like Chelsea and City (and most other "big" clubs) are falling over themselves to expand theirs.

Additionally I always had the impression that for a while after Munich - at least under Busby - United were rather well liked. How hated they were by the average person over here in the 70s and 80s I wouldn't claim to know, though while I'd never have thought they were a beloved national institution, I'm still surprised to hear that they were strongly despised in that time.

Yeah, the others have plentiful international fanbases too, that wasn't really what I was referring to though. I was more talking about how popular United are around the UK

 

[The Sean]

Yeah, the others have plentiful international fanbases too, that wasn't really what I was referring to though. I was more talking about how popular United are around the UK

Ah ok, I see what you mean now. Yeah TBF I have heard that complaint a lot - go to any town in England and you'll see people supporting United rather than their local team. Is that a success-driven phenomenon, or are there other reasons for it? It surely couldn't be because they want to be "cool" given how despised they are by everybody else for doing so.

 

[Jarquis]

Ah ok, I see what you mean now. Yeah TBF I have heard that complaint a lot - go to any town in England and you'll see people supporting United rather than their local team. Is that a success-driven phenomenon, or are there other reasons for it? It surely couldn't be because they want to be "cool" given how despised they are by everybody else for doing so.

It's almost entirely success driven from people I know who have no real connection to Manchester. They don't care about other people liking the team they support because they can just turn around and say "Who won the league last year?" or something along those lines.

 

[GIMH]

Ah ok, I see what you mean now. Yeah TBF I have heard that complaint a lot - go to any town in England and you'll see people supporting United rather than their local team. Is that a success-driven phenomenon, or are there other reasons for it? It surely couldn't be because they want to be "cool" given how despised they are by everybody else for doing so.

Well generally most people I know of claim some sort of mythical connection to Manchester

 

[The Sean]

Well generally most people I know of claim some sort of mythical connection to Manchester

I always loved the Stone Roses TBH.

 

[Jarquis]

Well generally most people I know of claim some sort of mythical connection to Manchester

Great-grandparents spending a weekend on holiday there back in the 40s is a good one

 

[Jarquis]

Jack Wilshere joins Bolton Wanderers on loan | News Archive | News | Arsenal.com

Better than nowhere I suppose.

 

[Uppercut]

Aside from the fact that they clearly do, someone who lives in England would be likely to be more aware of this, yes?

Not really, they'd only be more likely to be aware of how hated or not hated United were in England. And tbf every single aspect of the media in Northern Ireland is identical to that in England (same country after all) so the only difference between my experience and yours is personal and anecdotal evidence. Surely it's self-evident that someone growing up in the Wirral with a Liverpool-mad Dad and someone growing up in Belfast with a United-mad Dad would have experienced different tales of past United-hatred? You might well be right on the topic, because "I've heard this from person X in several pubs" against "I heard something different from person Y in several other pubs" isn't much use as far as getting to the bottom of it goes. But I don't really see why your personal experiences are more valid just because they happened in England. Unless you really do count whether fans in England hate United as more important than whether fans in Northern Ireland do.

 

[grecian]

Not normally a stat man, but this one from opta is diverting.

"John Terry has scored more often away from home than at home (8 times). He also scored one own goal away from home."