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*Official* England in Bangladesh

aussie

Hall of Fame Member
Fail because your concept of best ODI team includes Prior.

Fail.

Yes please explain to me in detail why Prior should be dropped?

Secondly dont avoid the question please in detail with the aid of cricinfo (if needed) tell me when & where you have seen Mark Davies bowl over the years?
 

FBU

International Debutant
So is this what the ODI side will look like? Sidebottom's average has gone up to 35.46. It might be an idea to move Swann to open and qet us off to a quick start.

Cook
Trott
Pietersen
Collingwood
Morgan
Wright
Prior
Swann
Bresnan
Plunkett
Broad

reserves Denly, Sidebottom, Shahzad, Tredwell
 

FBU

International Debutant
Broad at 11? Depth or what. Should be aboive Plunkett though
Broad HS 45 - average 14.69 - s/r 74.1
Plunkett HS 56 - average 21.07 - s/r 85.2

List A
Broad HS 45 13.71 s/r 72.4
Plunkett HS 73 average 20.45 s/r 90.89
 
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Jarquis

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Yeah, don't rate Broad with the bat in OD games, though he'll still batt ~8 as he's "the future".
Swanneh to open in a T20, would be awesome.
The only reason he doesn't open in Tests is because it's deemed "against the spirit of the game" to hammer your opposition that badly.
 

zaremba

Cricketer Of The Year
Especially when you consider his FC average is comparable to the great Sir Alec Besder (an actual great medium pacer) - if that doesn't ring the alarm bells which it clearly hasn't for many on CW, nothing ever will.
This is, and although it's only January I'm sure it will remain, the wackiest argument of the year.

Ah yes, the guy has got a great FC average. The alarm bells are ringing! :wacko:
 

aussie

Hall of Fame Member
This is, and although it's only January I'm sure it will remain, the wackiest argument of the year.

Ah yes, the guy has got a great FC average. The alarm bells are ringing! :wacko:
Their is nothing wacky about it. Surely if he has a comparable FC average to greatest ever medium pace bowler to play for ENG next to Maurice Tait, that should be a CLEAR indicator that we have a great bowler in the making?.

But even with such an average the ENG selectors didn't even take him on tour to Bangladesh of all places. What are their doubts?? Thats like a batsman averaging 50 every other season in FC cricket for 5 years across divisions (like Hussey did for AUS in ENG/AUS)
& the AUS selectors backing him without question.

Which is rather proves as i've said that maybe some see his average is a gross abberation & the fact that his FC average is comparable to Bedser shows that why their is problem with the standard of batting in DIV 1 & county cricket currently - since its disgraceful that he has comparable FC average to one of greatest bowlers of all-time.
 
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Scaly piscine

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Yea of course he should take 0-111 so his average doesn't compare with Bedser and be a disgrace to cricket.

Being a bit dense is one thing. Being dense and talking total **** because you insist on being the authority on everything when you clearly know sweet FA is another matter entirely.
 
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aussie

Hall of Fame Member
Yea of course he should take 0-111 so his average doesn't compare with Bedser and be a disgrace to cricket.
No FC cricket standard in ENG is way below international standard now. Unlike Bedser's era when domestic cricket was basically on bar with international cricket when it coems to quality, intensity & crowd interest.

Thus back then via success in FC cricket one could make a clear guide as to how one could go in international cricket. Same thing has been the case with AUS domestic cricket in the last 20 years.

So given the wide gap in standards in modern domestic cricket to international cricket, Davies average is certainly questionable. If the selectors where 100% certain he was really as good as his average states, they certainly would have taken him to BANG of all places.

They didn't because for them something for them wrong i can't speak for them. But my opinion based on seeing him bowl is because he is not as good as his average suggests & on the flat pitches in BANG he would be ineffective.


Being a bit dense is one thing. Being dense and talking total **** because you insist on being the authority on everything when you clearly know sweet FA is another matter entirely.
Again you have no creditbilty to call my view on this matter dense since you are claiming Davies bowled as fast as Fraser, McGrath in the last days of his career. While claiming Onions is better than Anderson.

Plus are pushing for Blackwell to be in the test team currently. So unless you can finally muster up the balls to explain to me the cricket logic behind these, you can't tell me ****.

I am not trying to be the authority in this debate on Davies. I am sharign my opinion on him based on the times i've seen him bowl. While everyone else including yourself with your one-sded Durham bias are basing it on his FC average.

I ask you as well, please in detail explain when & where (with the help of cricinfo if needed) you have seen Davies bowl??
 

Scaly piscine

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Onions is blatantly better than Anderson.

Anderson averages 35 ffs and still averages well over 30 in recent times when he's supposed to have gotten better. Onions averages 31 despite being unlucky, ****ed about by the captain and the selectors as well as having just played 6 Tests against SA and Australia - the best players of seam bowling.

Apart from that being blatantly obvious Onions comprehensively outbowls Anderson virtually every Test and looks a much better bowler.


Blackwell should be in the squad. England should have 3 spin options in Bangladesh. Swann, obviously. Rashid and Blackwell. Blackwell's recent record and variety easily elevates him above other mid-career plodders like Tredwell.


Oh and I have no credibility because I've correctly said Davies is the same pace as McGrath in his late years and Fraser? Yea because you disproved that with what exactly? Oh right so I've no credibility because aussie's fabled memory says otherwise.
 
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lockton2skipper

U19 Debutant
after witnessing the england south africa series it is plain to see that the england attack lacks pace. anderson and broad are capable bowlers but there is a need for a genuine strike bowler. i rate onions and sidebottom as like for like bowlers as anderson and broad. swanny is a great spinner best english spinner for years, decades ? then back to the all rounder question where is there one ? luke wright isn't test standard. prior is a number 7 not six and pietersen needs to sort himself out
 

Scaly piscine

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
I'd say they lack quality more than anything. If you can find quality and pace then you really are doing well.
 

BoyBrumby

Englishman
35 Test average.

Congrats on being as dense as aussie.
Interestingly, as today's Guardian helpfully pointed out, if one takes the combined record of every English specialist seamer who's debuted since Anderson & has played fewer than 5 tests (Johnson, Kirtley, Kabir Ali, Saggers, Lewis, Tremlett, Pattinson, Amjad & Bresnan), it's a lot more impressive than Anderson's (69 wickets @ 29.59).

Lies, damned lies & statistics, obv, but caught my eye nonetheless.
 

aussie

Hall of Fame Member
Onions is blatantly better than Anderson.

Anderson averages 35 ffs and still averages well over 30 in recent times when he's supposed to have gotten better. Onions averages 31 despite being unlucky, ****ed about by the captain and the selectors as well as having just played 6 Tests against SA and Australia - the best players of seam bowling.

Apart from that being blatantly obvious Onions comprehensively outbowls Anderson virtually every Test and looks a much better bowler.


Blackwell should be in the squad. England should have 3 spin options in Bangladesh. Swann, obviously. Rashid and Blackwell. Blackwell's recent record and variety easily elevates him above other mid-career plodders like Tredwell.


Oh and I have no credibility because I've correctly said Davies is the same pace as McGrath in his late years and Fraser? Yea because you disproved that with what exactly? Oh right so I've no credibility because aussie's fabled memory says otherwise.

Anderson HAS gotten better, their isn't any "supposedly" about that. Since Anderson has held down a regular place vs IND 07 he has averaged 33.31. Yes this not fantastic, but Anderson has clearly been improving & maturing as a bowler in every test since IND 07 although it has been slow progress. He still needs to add reverse-swing to his repotoire (signs of which i saw vs WI @ Trinidad 09) which will aid him him becoming a better bowler on flat surfaces. Onion on the other hand when it is flat has looked GUN BARREL STRAIGHT!!! - he has showed no signs in his 6 tests to date that suggests he would be effective in non bowler friendly condtions

I'm willing to give you that in those same bowler friendly conditions in recent series vs AUS & SA (mainly vs AUS). That both Anderson & Onions have looked almost on par in seaming/swinging conditions - but IMO Anderson has better control of the swinging ball ATM than Onions. But that is fairly subjective since some could equally argue that they are the same when its swinging, that i just my analysis on them ATS.


But overall to question whether Anderson has not improved in the last 2.5 years is not just crap, but its shows a lack of appreciation for Anderson's improvement.

Onions 6 early tests decent of solid bowling can't match up to 2.5 years of improvement of Anderson. Since you nor anyone can say for sure whether he will maintain that level of test match bowling (for ENG sake given our lack of stocks i hope he does) over a a similar period of time or whether his lack of variety may hurt him in future test matches.


Finally you say Onions has outbowled Anderson in EVERY TEST???:laugh:. I'm willing to give you they where close to comparable in the Ashes. But when it comes to the South African tour i dont even need to try to defend their stats by trying to suggest who bowled better. Thats stats says it all:

Anderson - 16 wickets @ 34.25 (with Anderson going wicketless in the last test)
Onions - 8 wickets @ 45.75

Explain how Onions was better then??? (Although i will be fair in saying Onions bowled better than that average suggested).




Now for Blackwell. Why should Blackwell be on tour?. Why should ENG have 3-spinners on a tour to Bangladesh?

Swann is the ONLY spinner needed for BANG. This is not a tour to IND/PAK/SRI, have you not been following the current India tour to BANG??. Does it look like the BANG batsmen are struggling againts spin??

Ian Blackwell is a joke & is NOT test quality. His FC performances is irrelevant because since he last played for ENG in 2005/06 the standard of county cricket has not improved to any level where one can take his FC record seriously. Just because the selectors made the foolish error to pick Tredwell in the test squad, doesn't justify picking a joker like Blackwell.

You dont even have to go on my opinion, the selectors CLEARLY dont have Blackwell on their radar so i can lay this one to rest.

If England can't take 20 Bangladesh wickets with a 4-man attack of Onions/Sidebottom/Broad/Swann, then something is really wrong. So this argument for Blackwell inclusion & for including 3-spinners falls flat on its face...


Finally no you have incorrectly stated that Davies is of the same pace now like McGrath was in the last days of his international career in Ashes 06/07 & WC 2007 & Fraser vs WI, SA & Ashes 98/99.

I am not basing my argument solely on memory i as a cricket fantatic have video tapes of it them bowling in their last days in international cricket which i can prove my point - of that i am certain. But of course i can't show video here on CW, so yes ATM it is basically my word againts yours..


Finally again stop avoding the question. May i have in detail where & when you have seen Mark Davies bowled over the years??. Since to date NO ONE else has had to prove like me in detail where they themselves have seen Davies bowl...
 
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lockton2skipper

U19 Debutant
great discussion. anderson is englands number one pace bowler. remember mike smith the gloucester left arm seamer who had one test ? mark davies i would put into a similar catagory ditto jon lewis.
 

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