*Official* England in Bangladesh

[aussie]

Which flies massively in the face of all statistical evidence.

While batting and bowling averages aren't the be all and end all, you cannot logically argue that Mustard scores his runs quicker than Davies when the statistics tell you the exact opposite.

This is KEY point. The argument is not based on the stats of the domestic cricket over the 2009 season or their respective averages in List A/T20 that may show Davies has a higher SR.

But rather who againts international ODI/T20 bowling can take advantage of the power-plays better. Given that in List A cricket for years their hasn't been much 90 mph new-ball bowlers/high 80s or even enough quality swing bowler in List A cricket - the transition to being able for most openers except Trescothick, Robin Smith, Knight in transfering List A power-play/15 overs dominance into international cricket has being a problem in the ENG ODI team since WC 92.

This why the likes of Mal Loye, Ali Brown, Darren Maddy, Cook, Atherton, Solanki, Bell, Prior, Jones, Wright (so far) where failures/didn't look international quality as ODI/T20 openers. Theirfore from seeing both Mustard & Davies IMO - Mustard is more likely to translate his List A strike rate againts international players of 90 mph etc more than Davies since Mustard is far better power-hitter againts those type of bowlers. Davies to me would be one to score 50 off 80 balls opening more often, while Mustard would be the man to score a run a ball 50 or less againts international ODI/T20 bowlers.

But as i said before Mustard regardless of that skill, has many other issues in his technique which would inhibit him from scoring a run-a-ball 50 consistently againts international new-ball ODI bowlers - that is why he was dropped.

 

[Scaly piscine]

Fraser certainly was medium pace, he was consistently sub-80 when he came back to England's side and dominated WI and SA..

 

[aussie]

Fraser certainly was medium pace, he was consistently sub-80 when he came back to England's side and dominated WI and SA..

Ha madness. I found some highlights by luck just just now of the 98/99 Ashes with Fraser bowling a bit. See here

Unfortuantely speed guns didn't get to AUS until 99/00 so i can't prove it. But i am certain Fraser in Ashes 98/99 was bowling the same pace of Hoggard in Ashes 06/07 which was consistently between 80-83 mph range, with the odd ball between 75-79 mph.

When SA when here in summer of 98 we had speed guns & I definately remember Fraser at that pace.


EDIT: Just remembered Stuart Clark was consistenly Davies pace (sub-80) in the Headingley & Oval test. He maintained that drop in pace in Champions League for NSW & in state cricket recently & AUS selectors dropepd him like a bad habit. Further proof that bowlers of such pace don't have a future in international cricket..

 

[Scaly piscine]

Odd ball 75mph and consistently 80-83mph. I must have missed Fraser's slower balls. I think I'll go with my own memory on this one.

 

[King Pietersen]

EDIT: Just remembered Stuart Clark was consistenly Davies pace (sub-80) in the Headingley & Oval test. He maintained that drop in pace in Champions League for NSW & in state cricket recently & AUS selectors dropepd him like a bad habit. Further proof that bowlers of such pace don't have a future in international cricket..

Mohammed Asif begs to differ. Has been bowling late 70's to early 80's whenever I've seen him since his return, and he's looked as threatening as ever. Davies certainly doesn't bowl slower than that from whatever I've seen, he generally operates around that pace. Certain FC statistics in English County cricket can be somewhat dismissed I agree, but a bowling average as good as Davies' clearly shows he has some discernible talent and I definitely believe he should at least given a chance in the Test side.

 

[BoyBrumby]

Lets read Morgan's own thoughts on the matter.

'I'm nowhere near Test cricket' - Morgan | England Cricket News | Cricinfo.com

TBF he seems a genuinely nice guy and probably doesn't want to be seen pushing his own cart too hard. Selecting someone with his FC average isn't ideal, but he does average more than Colly did when he was called up to the test team with both having been productive in the international limited overs game.

I doubt he's too far back in the queue.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

I don't want to be a Grammar Nazi, aussie, but your posts are getting harder and harder to read.

where /= were
theirfore should be therefore

 

[aussie]

Mohammed Asif begs to differ. Has been bowling late 70's to early 80's whenever I've seen him since his return, and he's looked as threatening as ever. Davies certainly doesn't bowl slower than that from whatever I've seen, he generally operates around that pace. Certain FC statistics in English County cricket can be somewhat dismissed I agree, but a bowling average as good as Davies' clearly shows he has some discernible talent and I definitely believe he should at least given a chance in the Test side.

True about Asif pace, but based on what i've seen Davies is a tad slower (75-79 mph) with the odd ball @ 80 mph. But at least Asif like Hoggard have/had FAR superior bowling skills that Davies & are/were likely to be more effective in more conditions (greentop & flat decks) - than Davies vs international batsmen.

Davies like John Lewis i'll be fair in saying his likely chances of success would be on a greentop. When pitch gets flat (which is still the trend of most pitches worldwide) Davies would be useless.

 

[aussie]

TBF he seems a genuinely nice guy and probably doesn't want to be seen pushing his own cart too hard. Selecting someone with his FC average isn't ideal, but he does average more than Colly did when he was called up to the test team with both having been productive in the international limited overs game.

I doubt he's too far back in the queue.

Yea thats how i read his response as well..

I don't want to be a Grammar Nazi, aussie, but your posts are getting harder and harder to read.

where /= were
theirfore should be therefore

Yes you are being a grammar nazi, since i can be allowed to make spelling mistakes even if may be unfortunately consistent - once you get the point. This isn't English AL class nor is spelling mistakes/grammatical errors on the filter list..

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

A simple thanks would've sufficed. Life lessons.

 

[King Pietersen]

True about Asif pace, but based on what i've seen Davies is a tad slower (75-79 mph) with the odd ball @ 80 mph. But at least Asif like Hoggard have/had FAR superior bowling skills that Davies & are/were likely to be more effective in more conditions (greentop & flat decks) - than Davies vs international batsmen.

Davies like John Lewis i'll be fair in saying his likely chances of success would be on a greentop. When pitch gets flat (which is still the trend of most pitches worldwide) Davies would be useless.

Remind me how much you've seen of Davies to make these assumptions again? Given the assured nature of your argument I'm hoping you've seen Davies in action on a number of occasions, on a number of different surfaces in FC cricket.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Remind me how much you've seen of Davies to make these assumptions again? Given the assured nature of your argument I'm hoping you've seen Davies in action on a number of occasions, on a number of different surfaces in FC cricket.

Unless he's an allrounder or a centre-back. In those situations, ignorance is acceptable.

I don't expect you to understand this post though.

 

[aussie]

A simple thanks would've sufficed. Life lessons.

Oh ok. Thanks uncle..

Remind me how much you've seen of Davies to make these assumptions again? Given the assured nature of your argument I'm hoping you've seen Davies in action on a number of occasions, on a number of different surfaces in FC cricket.

It is impossibe for me or anyone here to have seen Davies bowl in numerous condtions in FC cricket because :

- Not many on CW (excpet maybe Scaly) live near to Durham. Thus would actually have the oppurtunity to watch him bowl week after week in FC cricket

- FC Games don't show on skysports (unless its late season DIV 1 games that may decide a winner as they have done since 2005). So one can only judge of FC performances on stats, which yourself said in English domestic cricket can be dismissed on occassions given the lack of quality.

- I have already explained in detail more than anyone else, who is backing Davies to be in test team how many times i have seen him bowl. See here

I have already explained why in past pages (which you can look at) of this thread why based on the evolution of test cricket, why a medium pacer like him would not be successful in international cricket today. He is nothing more than a county seamer & is/was no better than Jon Lewis (the last medium pacer to play for ENG in recent years) IMO regardless of his high average - which is disgracefully comparable to the great Sir Alec Bedser who was actually a great medium pacer - probably the best ever.

This argument has officially become boring.. So here what who ever is backing Davies to play for ENG keep backing him. I for solid reasons i have already given wont ever. Cased closed i have nothing more to say about Mark Davies...

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Oh ok. Thanks uncle..

You're my favourite nephew, boy-o.

 

[Uppercut]

While batting and bowling averages aren't the be all and end all, you cannot logically argue that Mustard scores his runs quicker than Davies when the statistics tell you the exact opposite.

He can and will.

 

[Scaly piscine]

My god he's saying Davies is worse or equal to Jon Lewis again. What a pile of ****e.

Davies averages less than 20 in FC cricket since 2004. That's home AND away.

Lewis couldn't manage that in a wet dream.

 

[aussie]

He can and will.

The reasoning is FAR more legitimate than you trying to equate Kallis to Ponting as player of the decade. So you better back up..

My god he's saying Davies is worse or equal to Jon Lewis again. What a pile of ****e.

Davies averages less than 20 in FC cricket since 2004. That's home AND away.

Lewis couldn't manage that in a wet dream.

. Yes Scaly you keep judging domestic stats on face value - this is why you will continue to argue for Ian Blackwell to play for ENG.

Lets break them down season by season - division vs division since 04.

Lewis:

2004 (DIV 1) - 25

2005 (DIV 1) - 27

2006 (Div 2)22 The year he played the only test.

2007 (Div 2) - 39

2008 (Div 2) - 28

2009 (Div 2) - 20


Davies:

2004 (DIV 2) - 18

2005 - (DIV 2) 15

2006 (DIV 1) - injured missed most the season

2007 (DIV 1) - 27. This was the year i acutally saw him bowl @ Blackpool CG vs Lancashire & even Ottis Gibson who had shockingly averaged 20 that season looked a better bowler than him. If things like that don't disturb you that a 38 year old Gibson who had no international future could be the LEADING bowler in our premier FC division - then nothing will..

2008 (Div 1) -15. Same season Harmison after having a shocking tour to NZ averaged 19

2009 (DIV 1) - 29



Two comparable county trundlers. So again unless you & other people actually begin to accept that Division one has serious problems when it comes to its standard of cricket - Davies will continue to be backed based on his wonderful FC record...

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Sorry, but is it that Division 2 has a higher standard of cricket than Division 1?

 

[aussie]

Sorry, but is it that Division 2 has a higher standard of cricket than Division 1?

No. Divison 1 is technically is still higher standard, but in some area's it can be as gash as DIV 2 - which is very average.

 

[Pothas]

No. Divison 1 is technically is still higher standard, but in some area's it can be as gash as DIV 2 - which is very average.

Yeah but the best young batsman in the country can only average 25 in it last season.

For the record I do think that Morgan will play test matches for England and he may be well have a decent of success in the future you can still not past the fact that he needs to get runs on a more consistant basis first as he himself recognises he needs to work on his batting in the first class game, lets have a couple of good seasons and then we will see.