Pak Players ignored by IPL - this is how democracy works

[Faisal1985]

expect more drama : its the Hockey World Cup in Delhi next month and Pakistan is one of the teams expected to play there

They might not send the team......



Btw....

This comes from Indian Press:

No Pakistani in IPL is a matter of shame
Avijit Ghosh, 20 January 2010, 04:53 PM IST

Pakistan are the current T20 world champions. Shahid Afridi, Umar Gul, Mohammed Aamer, Saeed Ajmal and company played some enthralling cricket to claim the trophy last year. Since then, Pakistan have seen another exciting batsman emerge on the horizon: Umar Akmal. Therefore, it defies logic that nobody wanted to buy the 11 Pakistani players in the IPL 3 auction on Tuesday.

What's the reason? Let us go through what has been proffered by the men and women involved with IPL. Some team owners have said that the Pakistani players had a problem of availability during the period. That's nonsense. Unlike the top Aussie players, they are available for the entire duration. In fact, West Indian Kemar Roach, a Deccan Chargers buy, will miss the first two games. That's because the Zimbabwe tour of West Indies gets over on March 14 while IPL 3 begins on March 12. The second Deccan Chargers game will be held on March 14.

Another gentleman was heard mouthing that the Pakistanis were not chosen because this was a short auction. There were too few players to be bought, he said. This logic doesn't hold either. The truth is that the owners spent sums as high as $720,000 and $610,000 for the likes of Parnell and Roach, while ignoring Aamer and Gul. Are we saying that the former two are better bowlers than Aamer (who is also emerging as a handy bat) and Gul? Or that the Pakistanis are not even worth $100,000? And have we forgotten that Afridi was the man of the series in the T20 World Cup 2009.

One logic being offered is that franchisees were not keen to have Pakistani players because there is an element of uncertainty involving them. Simply put, the relationship between the two countries is already edgy and could always get worse. In that case, the Pakistani players might go back. So why take the trouble?

Even this argument is specious. Sure, nobody would want to invest a huge amount in a 'risky' player. But then isn't investing over $750,000 in Keiron Pollard any less risky? What's the guarantee he will succeed? What about investing $750,000-plus in Bond, once a great bowler, now extremely injury prone. Let us not forget he's currently injured too. Besides, he is 30-plus and certainly not as quick as he used to be. Surely investing $300,000 or whatever in Mohammed Aamer would have been less risky - even though nobody can ever rule out problems in relations between the two countries. In a squad of 20-plus players, surely that was worth the risk.

Undeniably this is a shameful episode in Indian cricket history. And if it is a question of politics, then Indian authorities should have been upfront and open about it. Lalit Modi should at least say sorry to the Pakistani players. That's only in the fitness of things. It would be great if those who are proactive about peace in the Indian government ensure that Pakistani players are able to play in IPL 3.

Most of the current Australian players will be missing out on IPL 3 due to international assignments. Now, if we don't have any player from the champion T20 side in the world, then IPL 3 will indeed be vastly devalued.

Without the Pakistani players, Modi and company can still have the spectacle. But for me, IPL 3 will be nothing more than a bonfire of corporate vanities.

Source: The Times of India

 

[Shaggy Alfresco]

May be you should go check the facts before uttering your random rants about who did what! The only attacker India captured said plain and simple that 3 of the people involved in the attacks were Indian nationals and 1 was from Jammu...............stop arguing about Mumbai ......your Army is funding the entire Taliban suicide bombing in Pakistan...day in day out the police and army finds Indian made weapons being used in Pakistan attacks. Your intelligence is supporting insurgency in Balochistan. India is building illegal dams in Kashmir and flooding the entire poor population of Pakistani Punjab or leaving a drought.............Who did the Mariott Hotel bombings in Islamabad? Who attacked the SL cricket team? Yes the main stream media can fake and forge the facts, but first of all the facts don't change, and the locals are not main stream media.............so keep this Main Stream Media farce to yourself....don't argue like CNN IBN correspondent.........everyone in Pakistan knows what India is doing......

Haha, wow. I hope this is not an accurate representation of the views of the average Pakistani.

 

[Faisal1985]

Haha, wow. I hope this is not an accurate representation of the views of the average Pakistani.

lol, not touring Pakistan doesn't help now does it?

Go and meet the "average" Pakistani ....you will have your answer...

 

[honestbharani]

They might not send the team......



Btw....

This comes from Indian Press:

No Pakistani in IPL is a matter of shame
Avijit Ghosh, 20 January 2010, 04:53 PM IST

Pakistan are the current T20 world champions. Shahid Afridi, Umar Gul, Mohammed Aamer, Saeed Ajmal and company played some enthralling cricket to claim the trophy last year. Since then, Pakistan have seen another exciting batsman emerge on the horizon: Umar Akmal. Therefore, it defies logic that nobody wanted to buy the 11 Pakistani players in the IPL 3 auction on Tuesday.

What's the reason? Let us go through what has been proffered by the men and women involved with IPL. Some team owners have said that the Pakistani players had a problem of availability during the period. That's nonsense. Unlike the top Aussie players, they are available for the entire duration. In fact, West Indian Kemar Roach, a Deccan Chargers buy, will miss the first two games. That's because the Zimbabwe tour of West Indies gets over on March 14 while IPL 3 begins on March 12. The second Deccan Chargers game will be held on March 14.

Another gentleman was heard mouthing that the Pakistanis were not chosen because this was a short auction. There were too few players to be bought, he said. This logic doesn't hold either. The truth is that the owners spent sums as high as $720,000 and $610,000 for the likes of Parnell and Roach, while ignoring Aamer and Gul. Are we saying that the former two are better bowlers than Aamer (who is also emerging as a handy bat) and Gul? Or that the Pakistanis are not even worth $100,000? And have we forgotten that Afridi was the man of the series in the T20 World Cup 2009.

One logic being offered is that franchisees were not keen to have Pakistani players because there is an element of uncertainty involving them. Simply put, the relationship between the two countries is already edgy and could always get worse. In that case, the Pakistani players might go back. So why take the trouble?

Even this argument is specious. Sure, nobody would want to invest a huge amount in a 'risky' player. But then isn't investing over $750,000 in Keiron Pollard any less risky? What's the guarantee he will succeed? What about investing $750,000-plus in Bond, once a great bowler, now extremely injury prone. Let us not forget he's currently injured too. Besides, he is 30-plus and certainly not as quick as he used to be. Surely investing $300,000 or whatever in Mohammed Aamer would have been less risky - even though nobody can ever rule out problems in relations between the two countries. In a squad of 20-plus players, surely that was worth the risk.

Undeniably this is a shameful episode in Indian cricket history. And if it is a question of politics, then Indian authorities should have been upfront and open about it. Lalit Modi should at least say sorry to the Pakistani players. That's only in the fitness of things. It would be great if those who are proactive about peace in the Indian government ensure that Pakistani players are able to play in IPL 3.

Most of the current Australian players will be missing out on IPL 3 due to international assignments. Now, if we don't have any player from the champion T20 side in the world, then IPL 3 will indeed be vastly devalued.

Without the Pakistani players, Modi and company can still have the spectacle. But for me, IPL 3 will be nothing more than a bonfire of corporate vanities.

Source: The Times of India

IMO, even with the Pakistan players the IPL is nothing but a bonfire of corporate vanity.. It is not all that serious and with those guys not allowing ICC's ACU people around, there are always suspicions. It is a big entertainment spectacle and a fun thing to watch from that perspective but as a real cricketing event, it is well down the list for mine...

 

[Sanz]

So it is okay for the players to sign the contract (as they did in IPL2) and then refuse to participate in the tournament and basically leave the teams that counted on you in lurch.

But it is not okay for those IPL teams to learn from their mistakes and look for players who were more likely to honor their contract.

 

[jeevan]

Pakistanis (posters on this forum as well as cricket players and officials talking to media) are missing an important perspective here. The people running IPL (and in a broader sense, people in India) probably didn't think too hard about Pakistani players. They have a fairly nice gig going, they have 100% of a significant pool of players from India (it's T20, not test cricket) and 75-90% of the top players of the rest of the world to choose from without any sort of baggage attached.

So when there were the smallest of signs of problems with Pakistani players - the question they asked themselves was probably not "Why should or shouldn't we pick a particular Pakistani player?" but more "Why should we bother?". It's going to be a good show (and show is what it is, this isn't the Olympics) even if five or six more star players dropped out. (This "Why should we bother?" applies in particular to Shahid Afridi, btw, on top of his nationality.)

This hectoring and talk of past injustices and references to cricketing prowess aren't going to get any one out of a "why bother" mindset (reinforces it, tbh). What could work is to highlight the positive aspects of inviting Pakistani players. And there are so many. To rattle off a few: Even in the worst of times, India needs bridges to Pakistan, this is such a low hanging fruit. IPL has a humongous market, but could do with more, how about computing that RoI on an added 5% market by each team taking on one more $500K player. Anyone want to pick a few tips from Gul on how to bowl yorkers at will (there's a pretty long tradition of cross border informal coaching)? Finally, someone else who will get those 'pathan' jokes.

Even Rameez Raja's article (with it's talk of rulers and duty) misses this completely, imho. Leave the guilt-tripping to the Indian media & supporters (and there are a sufficient number that will, unless a shouting match ensues.)

The other thing Pakistan supporters could do is duct tape the fingers and mouth of "Faisal85" - this careless usage of terms like 'racist', and references to "cow urine" and bandying of half-assed conspiracy theories isn't winning any friends nor influencing any people.

[ And why does Pakistan need to win friends and influence people? Because life isn't fair. In the 40's, 50's and 60's Pakistan picked a long term fight with what was then a very struggling country that could be made fun of. Well in this decade, and beyond, that country - which had to ship in donated food to feed it's own people when this course was set - has turned out a bit differently in general , and very differently in the economics of cricket in particular.]

p.s. Myself an Umar Gul fan, and really hope he comes back to IPL. It's an annual circus, so even it's too late for 2010, he still has many chances. The other Umar, Aamer and Younis are great prospects/additions who I look forward to as well.

 

[Faisal1985]

Pakistanis (posters on this forum as well as cricket players and officials talking to media) are missing an important perspective here. The people running IPL (and in a broader sense, people in India) probably didn't think too hard about Pakistani players. They have a fairly nice gig going, they have 100% of a significant pool of players from India (it's T20, not test cricket) and 75-90% of the top players of the rest of the world to choose from without any sort of baggage attached.

So when there were the smallest of signs of problems with Pakistani players - the question they asked themselves was probably not "Why should or shouldn't we pick a particular Pakistani player?" but more "Why should we bother?". It's going to be a good show (and show is what it is, this isn't the Olympics) even if five or six more star players dropped out. (This "Why should we bother?" applies in particular to Shahid Afridi, btw, on top of his nationality.)

This hectoring and talk of past injustices and references to cricketing prowess aren't going to get any one out of a "why bother" mindset (reinforces it, tbh). What could work is to highlight the positive aspects of inviting Pakistani players. And there are so many. To rattle off a few: Even in the worst of times, India needs bridges to Pakistan, this is such a low hanging fruit. IPL has a humongous market, but could do with more, how about computing that RoI on an added 5% market by each team taking on one more $500K player. Anyone want to pick a few tips from Gul on how to bowl yorkers at will (there's a pretty long tradition of cross border informal coaching)? Finally, someone else who will get those 'pathan' jokes.

Even Rameez Raja's article (with it's talk of rulers and duty) misses this completely, imho. Leave the guilt-tripping to the Indian media & supporters (and there are a sufficient number that will, unless a shouting match ensues.)

The other thing Pakistan supporters could do is duct tape the fingers and mouth of "Faisal85" - this careless usage of terms like 'racist', and references to "cow urine" and bandying of half-assed conspiracy theories isn't winning any friends nor influencing any people.

[ And why does Pakistan need to win friends and influence people? Because life isn't fair. In the 40's, 50's and 60's Pakistan picked a long term fight with what was then a very struggling country that could be made fun of. Well in this decade, and beyond, that country - which had to ship in donated food to feed it's own people when this course was set - has turned out a bit differently in general , and very differently in the economics of cricket in particular.]

p.s. Myself an Umar Gul fan, and really hope he comes back to IPL. It's an annual circus, so even it's too late for 2010, he still has many chances. The other Umar, Aamer and Younis are great prospects/additions who I look forward to as well.

They asked that question at last moment. Like Rameez and all are saying, should have said NO right away rather then making a mockery of players at the auction.

 

[Faisal1985]

So it is okay for the players to sign the contract (as they did in IPL2) and then refuse to participate in the tournament and basically leave the teams that counted on you in lurch.

But it is not okay for those IPL teams to learn from their mistakes and look for players who were more likely to honor their contract.

I think the debate is about the way it was handled, not what the Indian response was eventually but the timing of it and how it was done.....

 

[G.I.Joe]

I cannot help but notice that this is IPL 3 we are talking about.

Yet it still involves the same teams, the same players and the same political realities.

 

[G.I.Joe]

Anyway, this is what the TOI has to say. Apparently the BCCI wanted the Pakistani players on board, and so did some of the franchises. So the BCCI pulled strings and did everything it could regarding visas and government permissions. That is how the auction list was drawn, Then, before the auction, the franchises wanted the government to guarantee that there would be no protests against the Pakistani players. Obviously the government couldn't guarantee that given the unreliability of Pakistan. So the franchises decided to play it safe and not bid on the Pakistani players. Obviously not talking about all of the franchises, since some of them were pretty clear on not bidding on them for other reasons (team composition, merchandising issues etc).

 

[Sanz]

They asked that question at last moment. Like Rameez and all are saying, should have said NO right away rather then making a mockery of players at the auction.

At least they did not sign the contract and then didn't honor it unlike what the Players did in IPL2. The players should have known better especially when one of the Player agent is claiming that he had prior knowledge to what happened in the auction.

Getting into the auction doesn't Guarantee you a bid even more so when they didn't honor their contracts in the previous year.

 

[Faisal1985]

Fine........issue closed....for me at least...

 

[mohammad16]

What utter BS excuses the IPL officials are coming up with to justify their treatment. These "risks" they are trying to associate with the draftings such as

- oh they might not be available........ (you can say the same about a dozen other world class players getting the big dough)
- oh well the political situation is unstable, what if the players are flown back mid way
- what if their visas are denied
- what if god forbid another attack takes place, we will have to send them back
- whatever other lame excuse the corporate morons can come up with to justify their case

the probability of any of these risks coming to life is the same as your best fast bowler pulling his hamstring in your first held training session

are you telling me spending 100 000 on a Pakistani bloke extremely popular in India is a risky investment considering all the benefits he will bring to your club, which most probably will be the case.

sure some of the hesitancy is justified, but not not draft A SINGLEEEE player even for a LOW amount is just ridiculous

if the BCCI isnt behind this, or this is strictly a business decision, then frankly uve got some dumb business minds at work.

gotta be kidding me.

 

[G.I.Joe]

There were 67 players competing for 12 slots. They'd have had to be pretty stupid picking up the one risky proposition when there were 4 other comparatively risk-free players for every slot. Thats good business. Letting your emotions override common sense isn't.

 

[mohammad16]

There were 67 players competing for 12 slots. They'd have had to be pretty stupid picking up the one risky proposition when there were 4 other comparatively risk-free players for every slot. Thats good business. Letting your emotions override common sense isn't.

Nope, its as dumb as you can get and I dont feel the IPL businessmen are that dumb, hence there are obviously other forces behind this. It is strictly political.

12 spots and 67 players, which 67 players? Is there Sehwag, Yuvi, Gilly, Jayasuriya and the likes? NO... 67 players who are far from being the best in the world apart from the 2 Pakistani's and couple of other internationals.

Your reasoning is beyond absurd considering the pool here.

lmao good business. Get a grip.

 

[G.I.Joe]

I'd ask Costanza to supply you his 'Risk Management' tape, but sadly the show's off the air.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Pollard isn't one of the best T20 players in the world? Hmmm, well someone must've missed a trick, because everyone seems to want him in their team. What about Bond? Surely he's a safe bet. The fact is that the best players are already in the IPL, but there was still a lot of talent available in this pool of players, regardless. And someone like Pollard is a safer bet than someone like Afridi, because you know he's going to show up. As has been said over and over, the Pakistani players did not honour their contracts last year. On that history, there's no guarantee they would again this year. This is about spending money to make money, and you don't spend your money on a shaky investment when there are safer options around.

 

[mohammad16]

Pollard isn't one of the best T20 players in the world? Hmmm, well someone must've missed a trick, because everyone seems to want him in their team. What about Bond? Surely he's a safe bet. The fact is that the best players are already in the IPL, but there was still a lot of talent available in this pool of players, regardless. And someone like Pollard is a safer bet than someone like Afridi, because you know he's going to show up. As has been said over and over, the Pakistani players did not honour their contracts last year. On that history, there's no guarantee they would again this year. This is about spending money to make money, and you don't spend your money on a shaky investment when there are safer options around.

Mind actually reading before responding? I said the best of the whole lot there is Pakistani players including of a couple other internationals. God..

Good business sense would tell you, given how amped up the Pakistani players were for the IPL that investing in them more than likely would yielded more than ideal results.

 

[gvenkat]

12 spots and 67 players, which 67 players?

Sold players:
Kieron Pollard (Mumbai, USD750,000+),
Shane Bond (Kolkata, 750,000+),
Kemar Roach (Deccan, 720,000),
Wayne Parnell (Delhi, 610,000),
Mohammad Kaif (Punjab, 250,000),
Eoin Morgan (Bangalore, 220,000),
Damien Martyn (Rajasthan, 100,000),
Justin Kemp (Chennai, 100,000),
Thissara Perera (Chennai, 50,000),
Adam Voges (Rajasthan, 50,000),
Yusuf Abdulla (Punjab, 50,000)

This is the list of Sold players

Pakistan: Shahid Afridi, Misbah-ul-Haq, Umar Gul, Imran Nazir, Rana Naved-ul-Hasan, Mohammad Aamer, Abdul Razzaq, Kamran Akmal, Umar Akmal, Saeed Ajmal, Sohail Tanvir

This is the list of pakistanis that missed out. Apart from Sohali Tanvir , Umar Gul, Abdul Razzaq and Afridi it does not make a difference who plays from that list or these guys. Afridi is a drama queen and would not have been wanted by any franchise except maybe KKR.

So stop your whining.. If any Sohail Tanvir, Gul and Razzaq might even get a back door entry.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Mind actually reading before responding? I said the best of the whole lot there is Pakistani players including of a couple other internationals. God..

Good business sense would tell you, given how amped up the Pakistani players were for the IPL that investing in them more than likely would yielded more than ideal results.

I read your entire post before commenting. You need to realize that an investment entails getting a return on your money. It's not purely about how good the product is. And if the players don't turn up, you don't get that return. You don't get credit based on how well that player would likely have performed.

It's not like Bradman was snubbed. There were no players in that pool good enough to risk spending money on, if you thought they might not show up. None.