*Official* West Indies In Australia

[Nate]

Yup.

That said, Miller at least has pretty awesome domestic numbers. And a hell of a glower.

Nice try, Corey. And he's 28 iirc, so he's hardly young.

Matches I have seen where I've thought he's looked good include vs Australia in the Champions Trophy, where he took 2/24, including Ponting iirc. Also, his innings against Pakistan in the same tournament showed pretty awesome fighting spirit, although I don't think he bowled. And I liked how he bowled in the series against England beforehand.

Haha, looking back, I could be well wrong about all that. But I've seen him on Foxtel, numerous times, and I rate him, so

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

"sometimes" isn't stating the facts though, "sometimes" could mean he's only decent against weak opposition, but the facts suggest he's damn good against TOP opposition which you seem to be ignoring.

Um what? I said "sometimes" and it's true. He only looks good "sometimes". I don't see how that would imply anything other than "he looks good some of the time and mediocre most of the time". His results reflect that.

Even against top opposition this is true. He's good sometimes.

This isn't about Swann, my only argument is BOTH spinners didn't get anywhere on the day, so you can't just put the blame on Benn, and even though he didn't take a wicket he pilled the pressure on from what i remember without getting what he deserved

Anyone who watched the game would see Benn should have done more. Hauritz is not West Indian and therefore absolutely irrelevant.

And what on earth has Jaggs done in domestic cricket lately? even youngsters like Devandre Bishoo and Gavin Wallace totally killed him in the last domestic season and he's being out bowled in this latest one too.

And even a guy like Nikita Miller is still outbowling all of them combined. Thoughts?

I don't believe Benn's performances in the one dayers against Newzealand were any worse than what Miller has done to be honest, you seem to be painting this picture of Miller being some "great one dayer" or something when the truth is he hasn't done anything special thus far.

Really? Do you not read my posts?

And WHY do you think Deonarine had more chances than him?

Because he has! He has literally bowled a LOT more than Miller has! That's not even opinion. That's an indisputable fact!

i mean lets be realistic here if both Jaggs and Miller were as good as you seem to be suggesting don't you think they would have been given more chances? Dyson has gone and yet they never got anywhere near the latest test side, that speaks volumes.

Oh right, because that's how the West Indies selectors work. Because they always give chances to those who deserve it. That's why Adam Sanford has 11 Tests to his name and Bennett has never been capped right? That's why spinners have tragically been mishandled before the Benn fascination begun. I mean, honestly, if you really believe that last point, then I have to question the foundation of any argument you make here.

Dyson is not the be all and end all of West Indian cricket. He's neither West Indian nor is he hired by the board anymore.

You can't trumpet players like Bishoo and Permaul based on domestic statistics, blind to the fact that Miller has outbowled them with his eyes closed.

 

[WindieWeathers]

Barath had 20odd FC matches behind him when he debuted. He had an average well over 40, an excellent conversion rate, and a hundred against a touring England side. He was picked on results, not potential.

Roach was picked on potential, but for every Roach there are 10 Marshalls. That's a fact.

So because others have failed before we should never take a risk on a youngster again? i think it's pretty obvious when the great young talents are ready, and for me Darren Bravo and Pollard are ready and have already proven their abilty in the champions league for T&T.

Get off it. Mohammed has almost twice as many ODI wickets as Benn in 4 less matches. 1/3 of the average and almost 2 runs better economy.

In domestic OD he has 5 wickets less than Benn in 23 less matches. His economy rate is better and he's a good 13 runs cheaper per wicket. How in the world is Benn more qualified to play ODI cricket than Mohammed? And how in the world, with 10 wickets @ 23.50 in 7 matches, has Mohammed failed to take his chances? As far as I can tell, he hasn't gotten a proper chance. And it's a shame.

Like i said IT'S TIME FOR NEW BLOOD MAN, Dave is 30 already and won't be getting any better, next thing you'll be wanting Rawl Lewis involved .

As for Kantasingh v Miller, the latter has 1 more wicket than he does in the same number of matches. And if you're looking at domestic performances, hey, don't overlook the guy who's been taking wickets for fun for seasons now. Especially not in favour of the guy who averaged 30 before this season.

Well i don't know what it says about Miller when a rookie can come in and challenge him so closely, Gavin Wallace done the same thing last season so why shouldn't he get a chance too?.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

So because others have failed before we should never take a risk on a youngster again? i think it's pretty obvious when the great young talents are ready, and for me Darren Bravo and Pollard are ready and have already proven their abilty in the champions league for T&T.

Yes. As far as you can, you pick players based on performance as well as ability. Pollard has a case for selection, as does Bravo, but in neither instance is the Champions League the major justification. Performance in a T20 tournament bears few implications beyond T20 ability. Needless to say, ODI and Test cricket are very different games.

Like i said IT'S TIME FOR NEW BLOOD MAN, Dave is 30 already and won't be getting any better, next thing you'll be wanting Rawl Lewis involved

It's time to ditch Benn then. That's all I'm getting at really.

Well i don't know what it says about Miller when a rookie can come in and challenge him so closely, Gavin Wallace done the same thing last season so why shouldn't he get a chance too?.

A rookie? Kantasingh has been an average bowler for a couple of seasons in the past. He's not a rookie. He's had ONE very good match (against a team with 3 batsmen) and suddenly he's a rookie who's matching Miller? Nice try, but Miller has been taking wickets against everyone for several seasons. But I guess, based on your Benn logic, an isolated performance is good enough to call it a career.

 

[WindieWeathers]

Um what? I said "sometimes" and it's true. He only looks good "sometimes". I don't see how that would imply anything other than "he looks good some of the time and mediocre most of the time". His results reflect that.

Even against top opposition this is true. He's good sometimes.

The BOTTOM LINE is he's PROVED himself against TOP opposition UNLIKE MILLER, therefore claiming "Miller is better" is nothing but a biased fallacy.

Anyone who watched the game would see Benn should have done more. Hauritz is not West Indian and therefore absolutely irrelevant.

And is Swann "West indian"? you seemed to think he was "relevant"

And even a guy like Nikita Miller is still outbowling all of them combined. Thoughts?

He never took more wickets than Bishoo though did he? and even Odean Brown outbowled Miller.

Really? Do you not read my posts?

Yep and you're putting down Benn in favor of a guy who isn't even the best spinner in domestic cricket.

Because he has! He has literally bowled a LOT more than Miller has! That's not even opinion. That's an indisputable fact!

Deonarine hasn't been at test level for years so it was basically a whole new start for the man, he comes back and grabs two wickets in Australia, don't make excuses the guy proved himself but when Nikita had a similar chance he didn't, it's as simple as that.

Oh right, because that's how the West Indies selectors work. Because they always give chances to those who deserve it. That's why Adam Sanford has 11 Tests to his name and Bennett has never been capped right? That's why spinners have tragically been mishandled before the Benn fascination begun. I mean, honestly, if you really believe that last point, then I have to question the foundation of any argument you make here.

I ain't talking about the past i'm talking about NOW, if crap players like Dowlin and Findley can get a chance why not Miller? maybe it's because he's not up to standard.

Dyson is not the be all and end all of West Indian cricket. He's neither West Indian nor is he hired by the board anymore.

When a manager leaves it means everyone has a new start, but still it didn't make any difference where Miller was concerned, i wonder why?

You can't trumpet players like Bishoo and Permaul based on domestic statistics, blind to the fact that Miller has outbowled them with his eyes closed.

Bishoo took the same amount of wickets as he did last season and Odean Brown took more, so should they be considered too?.

 

[four_or_six]

Isn't Benn suspended?

 

[Top_Cat]

Nice try, Corey. And he's 28 iirc, so he's hardly young.

Matches I have seen where I've thought he's looked good include vs Australia in the Champions Trophy, where he took 2/24, including Ponting iirc. Also, his innings against Pakistan in the same tournament showed pretty awesome fighting spirit, although I don't think he bowled. And I liked how he bowled in the series against England beforehand.

Haha, looking back, I could be well wrong about all that. But I've seen him on Foxtel, numerous times, and I rate him, so

Just giving you ****. It's alright man, we're all aware of your left-arm spinner .

 

[Nate]

THEY WILL END GLOBAL WARMINGS z

 

[shivfan]

Isn't Benn suspended?

Actually, just for two matches, but he's also injured, and I believe he's going to have an operation of sorts....

roseboy or Mr Mx will corrent me if I'm wrong....

Personally, I think this is a chance for Miller to show what he's got. The WI need a spinner, and they may as well give Miller a run, because he's the leading wicket-taker in the domestic competition right now, along with a youngster named Kantasingh.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Personally, I think this is a chance for Miller to show what he's got. The WI need a spinner, and they may as well give Miller a run, because he's the leading wicket-taker in the domestic competition right now, along with a youngster named Kantasingh.

I think that'd be a bit harsh on him if this is his big chance. Because he deserve a chance at Tests, not ODIs. He's been pretty average in OD cricket.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

The BOTTOM LINE is he's PROVED himself against TOP opposition UNLIKE MILLER, therefore claiming "Miller is better" is nothing but a biased fallacy.

Because Miller hasn't had the chance to! How can you not see that? Benn has a couple of decent performances again top opposition and a lot of average ones against the same opposition. Miller has never even played those teams, let alone failed against them.

And is Swann "West indian"? you seemed to think he was "relevant"

Only relevant in so much as you claimed Hauritz was.

He never took more wickets than Bishoo though did he? and even Odean Brown outbowled Miller.

Do you follow West Indies cricket at all? Miller consistently outbowls Bishoo. If you're going to argue stats, you should actually read up on them.

Yep and you're putting down Benn in favor of a guy who isn't even the best spinner in domestic cricket.

Yes, Mohammed is the best OD spinner in the region and Miller is the best FC spinner in the region. That's based on good performance. That being something that has eluded Benn more often than not.

You don't settle for an average international bowler - and an average well of 40 is average, kindly - when you have bowlers who are better than him at domestic level, and don't get chances.

Deonarine hasn't been at test level for years so it was basically a whole new start for the man, he comes back and grabs two wickets in Australia, don't make excuses the guy proved himself but when Nikita had a similar chance he didn't, it's as simple as that.

Miller has played ONE Test match! And he only bowled 22 overs! How is that a similar chance??

I ain't talking about the past i'm talking about NOW, if crap players like Dowlin and Findley can get a chance why not Miller? maybe it's because he's not up to standard.

...because Miller isn't a batsman...

And more precisely, because a "crap" player like Benn is taking up space.

When a manager leaves it means everyone has a new start, but still it didn't make any difference where Miller was concerned, i wonder why?

Yep. It hasn't made a difference to Miller, because he's still dominating regional cricket and showing he deserves a Test shot.

And I'd advise you learn the difference between "manager" and "coach" btw.

Bishoo took the same amount of wickets as he did last season and Odean Brown took more, so should they be considered too?.

I never said other spinners shouldn't be considered. My point was always that Miller deserves to be considered more than Benn does. I'm a fan of Odean Brown, and I'd love to see him develop into a Test class spinner. Certainly he deserves a shot at it. Bishoo, however has been so far outbowled by Miller, I have to wonder what domestic competition you're looking at.

Last season:

Miller 38 wickets @ 16.34, 57.65 SR
Bishoo 38 @ 31.02, 62.28

The season before:

Miller 42 wickets @ 14.85, 46.71 SR
Bishoo 9 @ 22.55, 48.67

 

[WindieWeathers]

Because Miller hasn't had the chance to! How can you not see that? Benn has a couple of decent performances again top opposition and a lot of average ones against the same opposition. Miller has never even played those teams, let alone failed against them.

He's had one test which he didn't impress regardless of him only bowling 22 overs and he's also flattered to decieve in his one day appearances.

Only relevant in so much as you claimed Hauritz was.

Because Hauritz actually bowled ON THE SAME PITCH as Benn did, unlike Swann.

Do you follow West Indies cricket at all? Miller consistently outbowls Bishoo. If you're going to argue stats, you should actually read up on them.

I was talking about LAST SEASONS domestic cricket.

Yes, Mohammed is the best OD spinner in the region and Miller is the best FC spinner in the region. That's based on good performance. That being something that has eluded Benn more often than not.

And both are extremely average which is why it's time to give the youth a chance instead of flogging a dead horse.

You don't settle for an average international bowler - and an average well of 40 is average, kindly - when you have bowlers who are better than him at domestic level, and don't get chances.

Just because you are good at domestic level doesn't mean you're good enough at international level, Jaggs is a good example.

Miller has played ONE Test match! And he only bowled 22 overs! How is that a similar chance??

Excuse me did he not play against Bangladesh too? and he didn't impress in that one either!!.

...because Miller isn't a batsman..

there's more competition with the batsman, Miller apparently has a "crap player" in front of him and STILL can't get in, that's just weird.

Yep. It hasn't made a difference to Miller, because he's still dominating regional cricket and showing he deserves a Test shot.

Some players have a good style for domestic cricket while others have a style more suited to test level, evidently Miller may be the former.

I never said other spinners shouldn't be considered. My point was always that Miller deserves to be considered more than Benn does. I'm a fan of Odean Brown, and I'd love to see him develop into a Test class spinner. Certainly he deserves a shot at it. Bishoo, however has been so far outbowled by Miller, I have to wonder what domestic competition you're looking at.

And my opinion is if we are going to get rid of someone who's proven himself against top opposition like Benn then we might aswell give a chance to one of our talented youngsters like Bishoo, Permpaul, Kantasing etc, i'm pretty sure one of them is gonna be a star for us at some point, even Jomal Warrican and Yannik Cariah for the Windies u19's seem to be special talents to keep an eye on in the near future.

 

[aussie]

Miller = Benn IMHO.

...Back to WindiesWeathers vs Mr Mxyzptlk

 

[shivfan]

I think that'd be a bit harsh on him if this is his big chance. Because he deserve a chance at Tests, not ODIs. He's been pretty average in OD cricket.

Good point....

Miller deserves a run in Test cricket, but it seems unlikely he's going to get it, while Benn is there. However, if he does well in this ODi series, he might turn a few heads.

I know that's not how it's supposed to work, but sometimes it does....

 

[roseboy64]

Otis Gibson to be new WI coach?

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

It's good that the selectors are finally open to the idea of playing a spinner in Tests. It's a shame that they can't look past a mediocre one in the search for a good one though. On a note completely unrelated to this series, but related to WI cricket (and I'm too lazy to go to the domestic thread) Rajindra Chandrika (20 year old; Guyanese) looks a good talent. Played some serious business shots in the T20 last night. Had a decent FC debut on the weekend too.

 

[WindieWeathers]

Otis Gibson to be new WI coach?

He's a name that's crossed my mind in the past , i guess it would make sense as he's been a very important part of the England set up recently and maybe he could bring his experience into the WI set up.

 

[WindieWeathers]

It's good that the selectors are finally open to the idea of playing a spinner in Tests. It's a shame that they can't look past a mediocre one in the search for a good one though. On a note completely unrelated to this series, but related to WI cricket (and I'm too lazy to go to the domestic thread) Rajindra Chandrika (20 year old; Guyanese) looks a good talent. Played some serious business shots in the T20 last night. Had a decent FC debut on the weekend too.

Mxy as you're in the Carribean and close to the action so is there ANY left arm pacers apart from Pedro Collins for us to look at? what's going on with Delorn Johnson for example? i look at the Pakistan side with Aamar and it makes me wonder how good our attack would be with a fast left hander like him in the mix, there must be ONE coming through the our ranks surely? .

And as for spinners does anyone think Bishoo or Kantasing will get a chance anytime soon? .

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Bishoo doesn't get enough turn from what I've seen. I fear he'll end up going down the Nagamootoo route of legspinners. Odean Brown is a better bet there. Kantasingh is decent, but I really don't think he'll amount to much in the future. And he's Trinidadian, so this is definitely not bias speaking.

As for left-armers, Kenroy Peters has been a decent bet for ODIs for ages, but he's not quick at all. Just accurate with some movement. Never seen Delorn Johnson, but he hasn't played any significant cricket for a couple of years, so I'd suggest he's well out of the picture. I can't think of any left-armer who looks a genuine prospect, sadly. That said, Collins is still one of the best bowlers in the region and, I'm sure, can do a job.

 

[shivfan]

Otis Gibson to be new WI coach?

Have you heard something from a little birdie that you haven't told us yet?

Let's see how Miller does on these ODIs, to see if he can hold on to second place behind Benn, as inappropriate as that may sound....

I think it's a bit early to rush Kantasingh into the WI side. I would like to see him play a full season this year, and another one next year, before starting to toss his name around. Has Odean Brown leapfrogged Amit Jaggernauth as a possible contender?