How great is your all time great Team ??

[stephen]

No Australian Cricketer from the past 20 years good enough to make a squad of 13? I think that's extremely harsh.

Especially given the number of records the side broke.

 

[Ikki]

Actually, if memory serves me correctly he didnt pick a single West Indian paceman for his 1st 2nd or 3rd test XIs, hence y i didnt take ne of his teams seriously. Marshall (atleast) is easily in the top 5 greatest pacemen of all time and i dont think there are 12 bowlers greater/better than Curtly Ambrose.

He named a 2nd and 3rd XI? Unless you're assuming as such based on his candidates. TBH, apart from Larwood, all the names he listed have good claim to be in a first all-time XI.

 

[SJS]

No Australian Cricketer from the past 20 years good enough to make a squad of 13? I think that's extremely harsh.

Good point. Let me put an Australian side for the last 20 years and then see who I could have replaced with who.

1. Hayden
2. Taylor/Langer
3. Ponting
4. M Waugh
5. S Waugh
6. Clarke/Hussey
7. Healy/Gilchrist
8. Warne
9. Gillespie
10. Lee
11. Macgrath

I may have missed someone but I doubt it is anyone important. There are In Ponting, Warne and Macgrath there are three most suitable candidates for an all time side. Some may want to include Gilchrist too.

Warne and Macgrath have fabulous stats and they are great players but in my opinion Ponting is the one I most thought of before opting for Harvey. If someone told me Ponting for Harvey I would not resist much.

Macgrath is probably the finest right handed fast medium bowlers to come from Australia in almost a century. I prefer Davidson for being left handed since I already have Miller Lillee and Lindwall who are right handed and in the fast category.

Warne is the greatest leg spinner the world has seen in the last forty years but I am really impressed by all that has been written about O'Reilly and Grimmett. The one person who played with and agfainst those two and saw most of Warne's career, Sir Donald, considered O'Reilly the finest bowler he had ever seen and Grimmett the finest slow orthodox leg spinner. I have just taken his and other contemporary writings about him as valid. I must stress that I am also influenced by Warne's inability to cope with aggressive/domineering bowling as he faced from the Indians.

In a side with two all rounders in Miller and Davidson, I see no reason to compromise on keeping abilities for batting skills hence the choice of a pure keeper. If I have to chose the better keeper for the last twenty years too, my choice would be Healy not Gilchrist. Of course, in the absence of a genuine all rounder in this period (last 20 years) one might be tempted to include Gilchrist for better balance.

I must stress this is just my opinion and reasoning. Not something I am going to fight over

 

[NUFAN]

Good point. Let me put an Australian side for the last 20 years and then see who I could have replaced with who.

1. Hayden
2. Taylor/Langer
3. Ponting
4. M Waugh
5. S Waugh
6. Clarke/Hussey
7. Healy/Gilchrist
8. Warne
9. Gillespie
10. Lee
11. Macgrath

I may have missed someone but I doubt it is anyone important. There are In Ponting, Warne and Macgrath there are three most suitable candidates for an all time side. Some may want to include Gilchrist too.

Warne and Macgrath have fabulous stats and they are great players but in my opinion Ponting is the one I most thought of before opting for Harvey. If someone told me Ponting for Harvey I would not resist much.

Macgrath is probably the finest right handed fast medium bowlers to come from Australia in almost a century. I prefer Davidson for being left handed since I already have Miller Lillee and Lindwall who are right handed and in the fast category.

Warne is the greatest leg spinner the world has seen in the last forty years but I am really impressed by all that has been written about O'Reilly and Grimmett. The one person who played with and agfainst those two and saw most of Warne's career, Sir Donald, considered O'Reilly the finest bowler he had ever seen and Grimmett the finest slow orthodox leg spinner. I have just taken his and other contemporary writings about him as valid. I must stress that I am also influenced by Warne's inability to cope with aggressive/domineering bowling as he faced from the Indians.

In a side with two all rounders in Miller and Davidson, I see no reason to compromise on keeping abilities for batting skills hence the choice of a pure keeper. If I have to chose the better keeper for the last twenty years too, my choice would be Healy not Gilchrist. Of course, in the absence of a genuine all rounder in this period (last 20 years) one might be tempted to include Gilchrist for better balance.

I must stress this is just my opinion and reasoning. Not something I am going to fight over

Allan Border and Craig McDermott are two notable absentees from your XI. I guess the Aussie team from say 1995 to 2005 had heaps of brilliant performers and it was really a team effort.

I must say that I find it extremely tough to see how Harvey is rated above Border or SWaugh.

What's your view on Border SJS? I don't want to fight

 

[SJS]

Allan Border and Craig McDermott are two notable absentees from your XI. I guess the Aussie team from say 1995 to 2005 had heaps of brilliant performers and it was really a team effort.

I must say that I find it extremely tough to see how Harvey is rated above Border or SWaugh.

What's your view on Border SJS? I don't want to fight

Border has great qualities over and above his skills with the bat. He was a fighter par excellence. I am not running down his skills as a batsman when I say he performed well above his natural talents because he was so mentally strong. Now this is not a quality to be scoffed at; certainly not in a Test side. However when we are picking an all time side, the sheer talent available is so massive that we should not look to chose players that will get the team out of a messy situation through sheer will and fighting abilities (again I am not decrying Border's batting skills). I would expect a side with Trumper, Morris, Bradman, Chappell and Harvey at the top and Miller and Davidson to follow not need a terrier like Border at number six.

Players like Border are invaluable and the weaker the side the more their mental strengths are to be considered priceless.

By the way, as far as the last 20 years side is concerned, I would have put Border in for sure instead of Hussey/Clarke or even M Waugh but for the fact that he did not play much Test cricket after 1990. 70 percent of his runs were scored before that date.

 

[MrIncredible]

He named a 2nd and 3rd XI? Unless you're assuming as such based on his candidates. TBH, apart from Larwood, all the names he listed have good claim to be in a first all-time XI.

just watch his greatest XI dvd. He chose an intial 33 and then whittled it down to XI players without a single WI paceman. And seriously, none of the bowlers in the 33 have a better claim than Marshall much less the final XI. Then again benaud never did call this the greatest team, just the 1 he'd like to see play together

 

[aussie]

Border has great qualities over and above his skills with the bat. He was a fighter par excellence. I am not running down his skills as a batsman when I say he performed well above his natural talents because he was so mentally strong. Now this is not a quality to be scoffed at; certainly not in a Test side. However when we are picking an all time side, the sheer talent available is so massive that we should not look to chose players that will get the team out of a messy situation through sheer will and fighting abilities (again I am not decrying Border's batting skills). I would expect a side with Trumper, Morris, Bradman, Chappell and Harvey at the top and Miller and Davidson to follow not need a terrier like Border at number six.

Players like Border are invaluable and the weaker the side the more their mental strengths are to be considered priceless.
By the way, as far as the last 20 years side is concerned, I would have put Border in for sure instead of Hussey/Clarke or even M Waugh but for the fact that he did not play much Test cricket after 1990. 70 percent of his runs were scored before that date.

Hmm i see what you are saying SJS sir. But im not sure i'd agree.

In this hypitetical Australian All-time XI although the batting line-up will be full of superb talent Bradman/G Cahppell/Ponting/Trumper etc. But it would be an facing opposition hypotetical bowling attacks of equal supreme quality i.e a Windies 4-prong attack of Marshall/Ambrose/Holding/Garner.

Now it is very likely in hypotetical match up that such a magnificent Windies pace attack could run through the AUS AT XI top order. So i would think having a Border like player in the middle order would be a MAJOR asset.

 

[Ikki]

just watch his greatest XI dvd. He chose an intial 33 and then whittled it down to XI players without a single WI paceman. And seriously, none of the bowlers in the 33 have a better claim than Marshall much less the final XI. Then again benaud never did call this the greatest team, just the 1 he'd like to see play together

I agree, it is strange that Benaud didn't rate him where his record demands. But that's been the case with Marshall a lot. He is rated really highly here whereas generally in the cricketing world he doesn't get much of a shout-out.

 

[bagapath]

I agree, it is strange that Benaud didn't rate him where his record demands. But that's been the case with Marshall a lot. He is rated really highly here whereas generally in the cricketing world he doesn't get much of a shout-out.

in the ESPN legends series he came pretty highly, at 18 IIRC. he was the second highest placed pure fast bowler behind lillee. the fast bowling all rounders imran, miller, botham and hadlee were above him. even among bowlers he was probably only third, behind warne and lillee. that list was made by a panel of ex cricketers and writers.

 

[Ikki]

You're right, although I think he is the 3rd best pacer in their ratings and I have a hunch they'd probably be rating McGrath higher too.

Maybe it's just me, but generally the proportion of praise Marshall gets is out of whack with just how good is record is. I didn't witness his career so it's very interesting for me. Maybe you, SJS and some other more knowledgeable posters can enlighten us.

 

[MrIncredible]

From what ive seem first hand and from his stats this is what i know of the man:

He had all the tricks u could hope for in a fast bowler: outswing, inswing, off/leg cutter and the nastiest of bouncers. He probably could reverse it too but WI bowlers of the time had no knowledge of the technique. Ne way Marshall (for me) is one of those bowlers who could bowl on ne thing (including the moon). For subcontinent wickets he would use a shorter run up and cut the ball at will (see India 83) or on the nastier WI wickets he would do as he pleased, bowl short, pitch it up, etc.

The reason y i think Marshall is not as highly rated by the so-called experts (mostly Australian and English i think- WI etc rate him very highly) is because he was part of the pack where the quality of the other bowlers was pretty high and hence didnt stand out like say a Dennis Lillee or a Hadlee or a Imran Khan. That to me is nonsense though, because after the retirement of Garner/Holding in '87 Marshall averaged 20 odd in 30 tests or so. Of course he had the likes of Walsh, Bishop and Ambrose but they didnt come into the side as instant greats and Walsh didnt become the bowler we all know until later in the 90s.

 

[The Battlers Prince]

i'd love to see this team play

1. Barry Richards
2. Sid Barnes
3. Don Bradman-c
4. Graeme Pollock
5. Gary Sobers
6. Imran Khan
7. Alan Davidson
8. Don Tallon-wk
9. Malcolm Marshall
10. Bill O'Reilly
11. Frank Tyson
12th MAN Herb Sutcliffe or George Headley depending on who in the order is out of form.

I made this side from players that I haven't seen but would love to see play in a side together.

but then i may aswell make a side of people I have seen play the game. I based this side on balance and style of play to make that side as balanced as I could to my reconning.

1. Matt Hayden
2. Sachin Tendulkar
3. Kumar Sangakarra-wk
4. Brian Lara
5. Jacques Kallis
6. Ricky Ponting
7. Allan Border-c
8 Wasim Akram
9. Shane Warne
10. Curtley Ambrose
11. Glenn McGrath
12th MAN Andrew Flintoff

I know I've left out murali from this and that is simply because I feel that the rules of the game were changed so he could play. I won't deny how fantastic his record is though.

I've also given the gloves to Sangakarra as opposed to Gilchrist this is because neither are the top glovemen I've seen (Ian Healy or even perhaps Bouchar) but their batting has been from two sides Gilchrist could come and add runs when the aussies already had a lot on the board where Kumar had more pressure.

Anyway this is my favourite side, Lara my favourite player :

 

[bagapath]

dont like to see sachin as the opener. otherwise your second team is very good.

 

[ankitj]

Voted for the best team because it has four of my top 5 all time bowlers, and still has Bradman.

 

[ankitj]

And Wouldn't Hutton and Sutcliffe be better options that Sid Brnes?

 

[The Battlers Prince]

yeah the pom openers were better as a team like hayden and langer, i think i didn't put them down cause the ashes are on, my mistake