The end of the road for SA and my last thread on proteas.

[jboss]

I think today we witnessed what will hopefully be an end in racial interference in cricket in SA. I have been banned by CSA from thier fan page for voicing my disgust strongly at thier racist motives and now have the last laugh as almost everry fan is turning thier back on CSA. I have also read on very popular news24 that most fans are calling it a day like I did and will let empty stands do the talking through the money that will be absent in future. It's been a long time coming and luckily I didn't put myself through seeing such a pathetic excuse for a test cricket team and have distanced myself from this team for good.

I know to well how this story ends: CSA will have the media and polls again next year asking why te empty stands. Greame Smith (the white SA captain) and one of the most successul captains of all time will be sacked, creating a futher scandal in future years when people realise that this team was not picked on merit in the first place. Given the most likely scenario of a change in captain, we can assume that the whole team will be rebuilt and finally the mickey mouse club of Arthur, Boucher and Smith come to an end. JP as mentioned before series can't bat either and I am enjoying having the last laugh. We need some Aussie selectors in SA that can chose young talent on merit and don't take ****. Only problem is a the declining number of proteas supporters got bigger.

 

[Faisal1985]

Wow....this is some deep stuff.........never thought their was such a politics going on in SA....

 

[Goughy]

A partial argument can be made that traditional cricketing groups are being 'driven' away from the game (read Anglo-white) in favour of promoting and pushing the game in areas to a population that has comparatively little interest which has resulted in a negative pay-off. I have seen that first hand at grass-roots level.

However, that doesnt quite cover all the events and it is not that simple. Coloured cricket is doing quite well, there are a few Black cricketers coming through and the affluent Anglo schools still produce quality cricketers. However, the big change since reconciliation has been the dramatic uptake in cricket by Afrikaans speaking whites. Previously their participation numbers were far lower than that of white Anglos but the numbers have exploded and Afrikaners dominate in many of the areas where previously Anglo cricket was strong.

The demographics of cricket in SA is changing. There is obviously a lot of bad to this but there is also a lot of good. Ignoring the people that are the foundation and supporters of the game in the nation is obviously a terrible idea but we have witnessed growth in other areas. It has not been managed well but I still hope the correct balance can be found.

As much as it pains me to say it Forget English speaking whites and Black Africans, South African cricket will remain strong as long as Afrikaners play the game in high numbers and their culture remains rooted in discipline, hardwork and determination.

 

[Shri]

Wow....this is some deep stuff.........never thought their was such a politics going on in SA....

Contrasting post when you look at your signature space.

 

[jboss]

A partial argument can be made that traditional cricketing groups are being 'driven' away from the game (read Anglo-white) in favour of promoting and pushing the game in areas to a population that has comparatively little interest which has resulted in a negative pay-off. I have seen that first hand at grass-roots level.

However, that doesnt quite cover all the events and it is not that simple. Coloured cricket is doing quite well, there are a few Black cricketers coming through and the affluent Anglo schools still produce quality cricketers. However, the big change since reconciliation has been the dramatic uptake in cricket by Afrikaans speaking whites. Previously their participation numbers were far lower than that of white Anglos but the numbers have exploded and Afrikaners dominate in many of the areas where previously Anglo cricket was strong.

The demographics of cricket in SA is changing. There is obviously a lot of bad to this but there is also a lot of good. Ignoring the people that are the foundation and supporters of the game in the nation is obviously a terrible idea but we have witnessed growth in other areas. It has not been managed well but I still hope the correct balance can be found.

As much as it pains me to say it Forget English speaking whites and Black Africans, South African cricket will remain strong as long as Afrikaners play the game in high numbers and their culture remains rooted in discipline, hardwork and determination.

You wanna know what I think? (you probably don't) but here goes. The rest of the world gets SA qrong 90% of the time. As an example I spend most my time in Norway trying to explain apartheid ehich no longer exists because people think it still does. People also think that black people are the indeginous South Africans and arw rong again. This is why the rest of the world cares little about quotas and other BS in SA. They think that that it is right and that the balck people deserve the power to ruin everything in SA with little regard an understanding about who the actual south Africans are(Khoi and San) and think that the black people were driven off thier land and are still the victims of apartheid. I know things don't get fixed overnight but surely after 20 years there has been enough time for the ANC to start creating positive change which is far from the truth. Is it gonna take another 20 years of abuse of power before the rest of the world gets more critical?

 

[Goughy]

You wanna know what I think? (you probably don't) but here goes. The rest of the world gets SA qrong 90% of the time. As an example I spend most my time in Norway trying to explain apartheid ehich no longer exists because people think it still does. People also think that black people are the indeginous South Africans and arw rong again. This is why the rest of the world cares little about quotas and other BS in SA. They think that that it is right and that the balck people deserve the power to ruin everything in SA with little regard an understanding about who the actual south Africans are(Khoi and San) and think that the black people were driven off thier land and are still the victims of apartheid. I know things don't get fixed overnight but surely after 20 years there has been enough time for the ANC to start creating positive change which is far from the truth. Is it gonna take another 20 years of abuse of power before the rest of the world gets more critical?

South Africa has a long and complicated history. I agree with you that it is little understood outside South Africa but the history and understanding is also tainted by many different biases within the country. I wish people knew more and understood the history and current situation but I don't think that changes the current environment we find ourselves in where there are no easy and simple answers to complex problems. I love South Africa, its history and the challenges it presents but one of the interesting aspects of the country is that its problems are so complex and interwoven that it is impossible to put things right without creating a whole heap of new problems. Anyone that says there are easy answers is lying.

 

[Furball]

Look at JP's FC career record and his Test career to date and seriously tell me he's not been picked on merit.

 

[zaremba]

Look at JP's FC career record and his Test career to date and seriously tell me he's not been picked on merit.

Pretty much ditto for all the non-white players in this team. Prince, Amla, Duminy would all be strong contenders for the England team ahead of, say, Trott.

Ntini has had an outstanding career, during which he was picked on merit and rose to no.1 in the world bowling rankings. And he will soon be dropped, having been given his sentimental 100th Test cap and the 101st cap which was given to him so that the 100th cap didn't look sentimental.

 

[Furball]

Pretty much ditto for all the non-white players in this team. Prince, Amla, Duminy would all be strong contenders for the England team ahead of, say, Trott.

Ntini has had an outstanding career, during which he was picked on merit and rose to no.1 in the world bowling rankings. And he will soon be dropped, having been given his sentimental 100th Test cap and the 101st cap which was given to him so that the 100th cap didn't look sentimental.

I'm not sure Amla and Prince were initially selected completely on merit, however there's no doubt that right now they're both in the side on merit, particularly Prince.

 

[zaremba]

I'm not sure Amla and Prince were initially selected completely on merit, however there's no doubt that right now they're both in the side on merit, particularly Prince.

Yep that's true.

 

[aussie]

Look at JP's FC career record and his Test career to date and seriously tell me he's not been picked on merit.

Dont know what his FC record was before test selection at least. But I think Dumminy initally wasn't picked on merit for either the ODI or test squads. Before the AUS tour last year Dumminy did nothing of note in international cricket.

His test & squad selection for the AUS tour last year was very iffy ATT. He just surprised everyone with his batting..

 

[Pothas]

His first class record is very good though, averages over 50 so whatever you want to say his selection is not a shocking one.

As for the wider issue I am not well acquainted enough with the intricacies of South African cricket to comment with any certainty but as per ususal Jboss is being very emotive and just a tad melodromatic.

 

[Furball]

Dont know what his FC record was before test selection at least. But I think Dumminy initally wasn't picked on merit for either the ODI or test squads. Before the AUS tour last year Dumminy did nothing of note in international cricket.

His test & squad selection for the AUS tour last year was very iffy ATT. He just surprised everyone with his batting..

If you don't know the facts then don't make yourself look like an arse by posting uninformed rubbish like you've just done.

JP averaged nearly 55 in domestic FC cricket. How that's not a merit selection when he got picked to tour Australia is beyond me.

 

[Goughy]

If you don't know the facts then don't make yourself look like an arse by posting uninformed rubbish like you've just done.

JP averaged nearly 55 in domestic FC cricket. How that's not a merit selection when he got picked to tour Australia is beyond me.

That was in 2008. His ODI debut was in 2004 when he batted 8 and was not close to being ready.

For what it is worth, my thoughts on Duminy, Amla and Prince. Duminy has earned his place on domestic form and as (previously) a young very talented player. Amla is there on his Superseries record and deserves to be there despite technical glitch and all. Weight of runs should count for something. Prince has turned into a decent Test cricketer. I have never (and still dont) rate him. Someone who is no longer young (he is less than a year younger than the 'ancient' Boucher) and has been groomed for Test cricket (and captaincy) and given every possible advantage. His record is good though and although I dont see the point of his inclusion it would be wrong for him to be dropped right now.
The real concern is that I dont see depth or talent in the SA domestic ranks. Batting is thin, fast bowling is thinner and spin bowling options are wafferlike. There are still good players but talent is not coming through like it used to, IMO.

 

[Sanz]

That was in 2008. His ODI debut was in 2004 when he batted 8 and was not close to being ready.

In 2003-04, Duminy was among the top performers statistically(Domestic).

2003-04 South African List A Highest Batting Averages

2003-04 South African First Class Highest Batting Averages

 

[Furball]

That was in 2008. His ODI debut was in 2004 when he batted 8 and was not close to being ready.

Was referring to Duminy's Test selection.

 

[aussie]

If you don't know the facts then don't make yourself look like an arse by posting uninformed rubbish like you've just done.

JP averaged nearly 55 in domestic FC cricket. How that's not a merit selection when he got picked to tour Australia is beyond me.

HAA Clownford did i just not say...Dont know what his FC record was before test selection at least.. So clearly wasn't basing my point on his FC form since i knew nothing about it ATT.

As i said i saw him ODIs on & off for 4 years & i found his test match selection very iffy & surprising since he didn't look the part in ODIs at all. What is fact though is that it has only been since the AUS tour that world has taken notice to him.

 

[Furball]

Yet despite not knowing what his FC record was, you stated that he wasn't picked for the Test squad on merit.

 

[Black_Warrior]

I think today we witnessed what will hopefully be an end in racial interference in cricket in SA. I have been banned by CSA from thier fan page for voicing my disgust strongly at thier racist motives and now have the last laugh as almost everry fan is turning thier back on CSA. I have also read on very popular news24 that most fans are calling it a day like I did and will let empty stands do the talking through the money that will be absent in future. It's been a long time coming and luckily I didn't put myself through seeing such a pathetic excuse for a test cricket team and have distanced myself from this team for good.

I know to well how this story ends: CSA will have the media and polls again next year asking why te empty stands. Greame Smith (the white SA captain) and one of the most successul captains of all time will be sacked, creating a futher scandal in future years when people realise that this team was not picked on merit in the first place. Given the most likely scenario of a change in captain, we can assume that the whole team will be rebuilt and finally the mickey mouse club of Arthur, Boucher and Smith come to an end. JP as mentioned before series can't bat either and I am enjoying having the last laugh. We need some Aussie selectors in SA that can chose young talent on merit and don't take ****. Only problem is a the declining number of proteas supporters got bigger.

You know I was reading your post with a lot of seriousness until I read "Duminy cant bat" and thats when I realized that this outburst is more of the emotional kind, and has its roots in frustration and anger which might have something to do with South Africa being 76/6.

I think when good teams dont perform up to the mark, there is a tendency to ignore cricketing issues and focus more on external factors that have nothing to do with cricket.
I remember when Pakistan were kicked out of the 07 World Cup, people came up with ridiculous arguments like the team lost because they were picked not on merit but religious attachment.

Look, sometimes its just hard to accept the fact that the team simply did not perform up to the mark. You have a batting line up of Smith, De Villiers, Kallis and Duminy (who according to Ian Chappell is the next batting great after Tendulkar and Ponting) and you are 76/6...then its simple..you batted poorly.

We can harp on about politics and other factors all we want but deep down everyone knows whats the truth.

 

[Top_Cat]

Yet despite not knowing what his FC record was, you stated that he wasn't picked for the Test squad on merit.

Not just that, though. I saw JP in his first OD game for SA and I don't know how anyone can see a player like that and not think he's going to be class. Looked the goods from ball dot for me, was only a matter of time.