*Official* England in South Africa

[Prince EWS]

Both Morkel & Ntini were bowling crap since ENG 08. But as aformentioned at least Morkel ooked like he could get people out. Ntini has gotten worse & worse in every test since Lord's 08...

Looking like you can get people out doesn't actually get people out. At least Ntini has proven he can succeed at Test level - if they're willing to pick Morkel just because he looks like he might be decent one day then I don't see the big outcry over them hoping Ntini is just in poor form rather than in decline (as it's happened before, many times) and retaining him based on what he's proven he can do. I agree that they're really stretching it now but the continual rubbishing of a bowler with almost 400 wickets @ 28 while a bowler who has done literally nothing at Test level and not much more at First Class level is getting a gig is pretty uncalled for, for mine. Both can consider themselves lucky to be here.

 

[wpdavid]

With England likely to go into the next test one up (almost eerily like they did after getting out of Cardiff in the Ashes), will the SA selectors finally bite the bullet and drop underperforming players?

'Likely' is overstating things imo. Long way to go yet, and I'd back SA's batting to see them through on this track.

 

[BoyBrumby]

Not shocking to see Kallis clock the odd one at 90mph, he's pretty sharp on his day. The extended 'warm up' at 70-80mph would have probably really loosened those muscles up too.

Yeah, he's been up around 83-85mph since then too. I was just surprised because he'd been wobbling them down at Colly pace all day before, then he suddenly bends his back and he was genuinely brisk.

Tiny bit of late swing for Steyn here now.

 

[Briony]

Looking like you can get people out doesn't actually get people out. At least Ntini has proven he can succeed at Test level - if they're willing to pick Morkel just because he looks like he might be decent one day then I don't see the big outcry over them hoping Ntini is just in poor form rather than in decline (as it's happened before, many times) and retaining him based on what he's proven he can do. I agree that they're really stretching it now but the continual rubbishing of a bowler with almost 400 wickets @ 28 while a bowler who has done literally nothing at Test level and not much more at First Class level is getting a gig. Both can consider themselves lucky to be here.

It's not about the past. And he's never been one to prosper on flat pitches. You'll find that a lot of his big hauls have been on bowler-friendly SA decks. He's been a loyal servant and honest bowler but I doubt he's make too many people's best teams for his country. He's always taken the new ball too. Maybe when Morkel gets the new ball more often he will improve. Anyway one of the English journso said before this test that England should take advantage of the political selection of Ntini and they have.

 

[Briony]

'Likely' is overstating things imo. Long way to go yet, and I'd back SA's batting to see them through on this track.

Might depend on the prevailing conditions.

 

[King Pietersen]

With England likely to go into the next test one up (almost eerily like they did after getting out of Cardiff in the Ashes), will the SA selectors finally bite the bullet and drop underperforming players?

Likely? Obviously not seen our boys bowling in the 4th innings of a Test to win a game before. We couldn't even bowl the Windies out in a day on 2 occasions, although we did have Amjad Khan playing in one of those games. :P I'm still seeing a draw tbh. Going to need some really quick runs tomorrow and hope for a either some movement early on for Anderson or just a top class bowling performance from someone. I'd love to see Swanny take a 5fer to lead us to victory. Not sure I see it coming though.

Haha David beats me to it again. Great minds etc

 

[aussie]

Hard to say. Bouncers have been clocking very high all game - Morkel, Steyn and Broad all have their bouncers at over 90mph despite mainly all bowling between 80-87mph for normal deliveries.

Well yea thats true for this test to date. But over the years since i first saw the speed gun in SA during the 2001/02 AUS tour. Bowlers speeds have always been clocked higher in SA than anywhere else.

For example Lee was clocked at 100 mph there in SA 02. But never clocked that back anywhere excpet in NZ 05. Plus i'm not sure if Akhtar even clocked 100 mph anywhere else in the world outside the WC 03 ball to Nick Knight. So i'm always sceptical...

 

[ozone]

Looking like you can get people out doesn't actually get people out. At least Ntini has proven he can succeed at Test level - if they're willing to pick Morkel just because he looks like he might be decent one day then I don't see the big outcry over them hoping Ntini is just in poor form rather than in decline (as it's happened before, many times) and retaining him based on what he's proven he can do. I agree that they're really stretching it now but the continual rubbishing of a bowler with almost 400 wickets @ 28 while a bowler who has done literally nothing at Test level and not much more at First Class level is getting a gig. Both can consider themselves lucky to be here.

Although I think if I were to pick the attack most likely to contribute to 20 wickets falling in the match, Ntini would no longer be in it, and Morkel most certainly would (even based on performance before this test), I agree with the principle that the over rubbishing of Ntini is uncalled for and somewhat disrespectful of a bowler who had given as much to SA cricket.

 

[Jarquis]

I had a dream and Swanneh hit 103* from 44 balls in the morning, then took 9 wickets and a run out to win us the game. I know it was a dream because there were too many balls and he didn't take all 10 wickets

 

[BoyBrumby]

Current Bet365 odds:

Draw 1.40
England 3.10
SA 26.00

Might be worth a little quid or two on the yarps at that price. Not likely, but never underestimate our collapsability.

 

[Manee]

Well yea thats true for this test to date. But over the years since i first saw the speed gun in SA during the 2001/02 AUS tour. Bowlers speeds have always been clocked higher in SA than anywhere else.

For example Lee was clocked at 100 mph there in SA 02. But never clocked that back anywhere excpet in NZ 05. Plus i'm not sure if Akhtar even clocked 100 mph anywhere else in the world outside the WC 03 ball to Nick Knight. So i'm always sceptical...

I've seen higlights of Akhtar bowling a couple deliveries at 97mph in NZ. Speeds tend to be higher in Australia too (Ishant at 151kph being an example), perhaps it is something to do with the Southern Hemisphere, at the risk of sounding obscenely unscientific.

 

[ozone]

Definately Englands day. Cook (and if England persist with playing 6 specialist batsmen, Bell) has done enough to secure his place in the side for the next few matches, and given he is likely to score runs against Bangladesh, probably for the next year, whilst Collingwood once again proved what a valuable asset he is to this side. For the South Africans, only Morkel will have done anything to improve his reputation, although Harris bowled well early on. Draw still the most likely result for mine, but unless there are two English batting collapses (obviously not out of the question) it is hard to see a SA win from here.

 

[Uppercut]

I've seen higlights of Akhtar bowling a couple deliveries at 97mph in NZ. Speeds tend to be higher in Australia too (Ishant at 151kph being an example), perhaps it is something to do with the Southern Hemisphere, at the risk of sounding obscenely unscientific.

The most convincing explanation by far is that the bowlers are actually bowling that fast and all this stuff about speedguns being different in different places is bollocks.

 

[aussie]

Looking like you can get people out doesn't actually get people out. At least Ntini has proven he can succeed at Test level - if they're willing to pick Morkel just because he looks like he might be decent one day then I don't see the big outcry over them hoping Ntini is just in poor form rather than in decline (as it's happened before, many times) and retaining him based on what he's proven he can do.

This was basically what they where doing againts in ENG last year & vs AUS recently before this series. As Graeme Smith himself said before this test.

"It was terrific to see Friedel bowl that well," Smith said. "But the three guys who have had the job over the last period of time [Steyn, Ntini and Morne Morkel] have been really successful at it. Makhaya brings a lot of experience to our attack. He maybe didn't bowl as well as he would have liked in Centurion, but he's a guy I really support and he has been integral through my captaincy. So I really back him to come through and bowl well in this Test.

His selection is as personal as it may be political. Ntini really shouldn't have been playing this series.

I agree that they're really stretching it now but the continual rubbishing of a bowler with almost 400 wickets @ 28 while a bowler who has done literally nothing at Test level and not much more at First Class level is getting a gig is pretty uncalled for, for mine. Both can consider themselves lucky to be here.

Not really to be fair. When Dizzy hit rock bottom in Ashes 05 or when Kumble had a very poor 2008 they deserved all the bashing they got to be frank. What he did in the past although good, is really irrelevant now especially with Steyn not 100%.

But as long as SA keep "backing him to come good" the better for England...

 

[Furball]

With England likely to go into the next test one up (almost eerily like they did after getting out of Cardiff in the Ashes), will the SA selectors finally bite the bullet and drop underperforming players?

Ntini's still the best bowler of his type, so he's safe.

 

[BoyBrumby]

Definately Englands day. Cook (and if England persist with playing 6 specialist batsmen, Bell) has done enough to secure his place in the side for the next few matches, and given he is likely to score runs against Bangladesh, probably for the next year, whilst Collingwood once again proved what a valuable asset he is to this side. For the South Africans, only Morkel will have done anything to improve his reputation, although Harris bowled well early on. Draw still the most likely result for mine, but unless there are two English batting collapses (obviously not out of the question) it is hard to see a SA win from here.

Yeah, I'd have dropped him for this test, but if we retained Bell after the first test it'd be counter-intuitive to give him the arse now he's actually got a score.

 

[aussie]

I've seen higlights of Akhtar bowling a couple deliveries at 97mph in NZ.

Yea 2002 & vs AUS in that spell in that famous test in Colombo & his 5/25 & Brisbane in the Super Challenge II series. But he didn't reach 100 again

Speeds tend to be higher in Australia too (Ishant at 151kph being an example), perhaps it is something to do with the Southern Hemisphere, at the risk of sounding obscenely unscientific.

Ha word, we aren't qaulified to talk about. But i think in AUS is pretty normal generally when clocking speeds. I remember that Ishant delivery i think the speed gun just went awol then. Since i remember in VB series 07 in an ODI vs NZ Tait delivered balls @ 160 ks & 157kph, then he managed to maintain those speeds of between 152-157 in the 07 WC.

 

[aussie]

The most convincing explanation by far is that the bowlers are actually bowling that fast and all this stuff about speedguns being different in different places is bollocks.

Nah i think its a legitimate querry TBF, given that neither Lee or Akhtar have been able to clock 100 mph anywhere else in world outside South Africa. Although Lee did do it as i said again in NZ 05.

 

[Uppercut]

Nah i think its a legitimate querry TBF, given that neither Lee or Akhtar have been able to clock 100 mph anywhere else in world outside South Africa. Although Lee did do it as i said again in NZ 05.

Neither Lee nor Akhtar have been able to clock 100mph anywhere else in the world outside South Africa, except for that time Lee did it in New Zealand. Hmm.

Apart from not making any sense, it's not true, because UIMM Lee famously never managed to crack 100mph.

 

[King Pietersen]

Neither Lee nor Akhtar have been able to clock 100mph anywhere else in the world outside South Africa, except for that time Lee did it in New Zealand. Hmm.

Apart from not making any sense, it's not true, because UIMM Lee famously never managed to crack 100mph.

Lee breaks 100mph barrier - Cricket - www.theage.com.au