*Official* England in South Africa

[Prince EWS]

I wonder if England will refuse to take the light later and keep on batting.The extra half hour or so might prove useful as we know that tomorrow and on day 5 the Saffers will take it straight away.Should be looking for a lead of between 50 and 75 tonight.

Yeah it's definitely one of those situations where you'd think the batting team would rather just bat on, but it never actually seems to happen for some reason.

 

[Shaggy Alfresco]

Really? Duminy's one, and he counts.

It counts towards the unofficial quota of 4 yes, but they want another "proper black african" to replace Ntini rather than yet another "coloured".

 

[Briony]

It counts towards the unofficial quota of 4 yes, but they want another "proper black african" to replace Ntini rather than yet another "coloured".

If they're only satisfied with a black African, it's time to ban them from cricket. Merit should be the only criterion for selection. And so much money has been thrown into the development of black cricketers compared with other races, according to some of the articles that if the cricketers are not emerging it's nobody's fault other than the sheer lack of available talent.

 

[ozone]

This is the kind of situation Bell has usually excelled in, to be fair to him. The platform's been set, the bowlers are tired and England are looking to push on from a strong position to a big lead. He's obviously not a great batsman but you don't average nearly 40 after 50+ Tests being completely terrible - it may not be as much use as digging in when England are in trouble and he may not be England's best option for the #6 spot, but Bell's always been pretty good at this role.

Spot on IMO. Wouldn't surprise me to see Bell play a beatiful innings and get a decent score today because the pressure's off and he can just relax at the crease. Might relieve the pressure on his place in the side for a bit, but isn't really proving anything because we already know he can score runs when there's a platform set.

 

[BoyBrumby]

If they're only satisfied with a black African, it's time to ban them from cricket. Merit should be the only criterion for selection. And so much money has been thrown into the development of black cricketers compared with other races, according to some of the articles that if the cricketers are not emerging it's nobody's fault other than the sheer lack of available talent.

****ing can of worms, tbh.

I think it's just about permissible to prefer the black player if he's of very similar ability (I suspect both Prince and Amla were initially "quota" picks who've justified the faith), but when it becomes so painfully obvious a clearly better player is being omitted on the colour of his skin it does rankle.

 

[flibbertyjibber]

****ing can of worms, tbh.

I think it's just about permissible to prefer the black player if he's of very similar ability (I suspect both Prince and Amla were initially "quota" picks who've justified the faith), but when it becomes so painfully obvious a clearly better player is being omitted on the colour of his skin it does rankle.

Why is KP playing for England? Quotas.It has good and bad to it,they need to find the correct balance or they will lose more players in future.

 

[Goughy]

This is the kind of situation Bell has usually excelled in, to be fair to him. The platform's been set, the bowlers are tired and England are looking to push on from a strong position to a big lead.

Yeah, I think everyone expected him to do well this innings as this is what he does.

Runs are runs but I wish he wasnt predictable and could tough out runs in other situations.

 

[Briony]

Why is KP playing for England? Quotas.It has good and bad to it,they need to find the correct balance or they will lose more players in future.

And it actually does the African race no favours to see someone who is clearly not picked on merit bowling so poorly and compromising his team's chances of making a game of it. SA is basically playing with ten men.

 

[wpdavid]

Why is KP playing for England? Quotas.

Maybe. Depends which version of events you believe.

 

[BoyBrumby]

Why is KP playing for England? Quotas.It has good and bad to it,they need to find the correct balance or they will lose more players in future.

I'm sure the quota thing is part of it, but a few coloured Saffers have come to play over here as Kolpaks (thus forfeiting their right to play international cricket for SA whilst contracted as such), so I think it's fair to assume that money might've played a part too. Until the IPL came along McLaren could earn more as a Kent Kolpak than as an SA centrally contracted player.

 

[Prince EWS]

**** Ntini's demise is exaggerated sometimes. He's not what he once was but it's hardly like playing with ten men; he's not Robbie P. Up until this game he'd still looked the part and applied pressure with good spells every so often - in fact he'd outbowled Morkel in the games they'd played together. This game has taken it a step further but regardless of his race he probably did deserve a proper chance to get his **** together taking into account what he's proven at this level and the odd moment of 'old Ntini' shining through. If he gets picked again in the next Test it's a bit of a farce but I don't think race has really been playing a bit part in his selection up until this point; he's been a very good bowler in the context of his contemporaries and the selectors weren't prepared to throw that and his experience away lightly, which was fair enough.

 

[Briony]

**** Ntini's demise is exaggerated sometimes. He's not what he once was but it's hardly like playing with ten men; he's not Robbie P. Up until this game he'd still looked the part and applied pressure with good spells every so often - in fact he'd outbowled Morkel in the games they'd played together. This game has taken it a step further but regardless of his race he probably did deserve a proper chance to get his **** together taking into account what he's proven at this level and the odd moment of 'old Ntini' shining through. If he gets picked again in the next Test it's a bit of a farce but I don't think race has really been playing a bit part in his selection up until this point; he's been a very good bowler in the context of his contemporaries and the selectors weren't prepared to throw that and his experience away lightly, which was fair enough.

I disagree, I think he's looked ordinary for a long time now.

 

[Uppercut]

**** Ntini's demise is exaggerated sometimes. He's not what he once was but it's hardly like playing with ten men; he's not Robbie P. Up until this game he'd still looked the part and applied pressure with good spells every so often - in fact he'd outbowled Morkel in the games they'd played together. This game has taken it a step further but regardless of his race he probably did deserve a proper chance to get his **** together taking into account what he's proven at this level and the odd moment of 'old Ntini' shining through. If he gets picked again in the next Test it's a bit of a farce but I don't think race has really been playing a bit part in his selection up until this point; he's been a very good bowler in the context of his contemporaries and the selectors weren't prepared to throw that and his experience away lightly, which was fair enough.

This would only be true if De Wet hadn't been absolutely brilliant in the last match.

 

[BoyBrumby]

**** Ntini's demise is exaggerated sometimes. He's not what he once was but it's hardly like playing with ten men; he's not Robbie P. Up until this game he'd still looked the part and applied pressure with good spells every so often - in fact he'd outbowled Morkel in the games they'd played together. This game has taken it a step further but regardless of his race he probably did deserve a proper chance to get his **** together taking into account what he's proven at this level and the odd moment of 'old Ntini' shining through. If he gets picked again in the next Test it's a bit of a farce but I don't think race has really been playing a bit part in his selection up until this point; he's been a very good bowler in the context of his contemporaries and the selectors weren't prepared to throw that and his experience away lightly, which was fair enough.

Dunno how much you saw of the first test, but he was very comfortably third out of the yarp seamers.

 

[Prince EWS]

I disagree, I think he's looked ordinary for a long time now.

Yeah he hasn't really looked himself since he got dropped from the ODI team 18 months or so ago, but he's never really been this bad. I can see why the selectors would've wanted to cling on to him and hope for an improvement, particularly as Morkel's inexperienced, inconsistent and has essentially done nothing. That's what annoys me - people whinge and whinge and whinge about Ntini but up until this game he'd outbowled Morkel even post-decline.

 

[BoyBrumby]

Ah, Colly. FFS. Pissed a ton away there, son. Tiny bit of turn into him from JP, maybe, but will be disappointed to go in such a soft way on 91.

 

[Briony]

Yeah he hasn't really looked himself since he got dropped from the ODI team 18 months or so ago, but he's never really been this bad. I can see why the selectors would've wanted to cling on to him and hope for an improvement, particularly as Morkel's inexperienced, inconsistent and has essentially done nothing. That's what annoys me - people whinge and whinge and whinge about Ntini but up until this game he'd outbowled Morkel even post-decline.

Not totally true, depends on what measure you're using. Morkel's always looked more likely to take more wickets. Also remember that Ntini always gets the new ball ahead of him, often wasting it. I don't think that figures are everything, they don't always tell the full story. And Ntini's haven't exactly been flattering either.

 

[Prince EWS]

This would only be true if De Wet hadn't been absolutely brilliant in the last match.

Yeah, as I said, him getting picked for this game and serving up tripe does take it a step further, but it's not like Morkel had an irresistible case for selection over Ntini for this Test anyway. He outbowled him in the first Test but even given Ntini's sharp recent decline that was still a pretty rare occurrence and I don't think it was by a huge amount either.

 

[wpdavid]

Shame about that Colly - seems to have lost his way in the last part of his innings. Now lads, lets not completely throw it away.

 

[Briony]

Yeah, as I said, him getting picked for this game and serving up tripe does take it a step further, but it's not like Morkel had an irresistible case for selection over Ntini for this Test anyway. He outbowled him in the first Test but even given Ntini's sharp recent decline that was still a pretty rare occurrence and I don't think it was by a huge amount either.

Surely the selectors also have to look long-term though. Ntini wasn't going to get any better. In fact his decline has been on the cards for some time now and being such a one-dimensional bowler his pace tapering off was always going to prove fatal.