*Official* England in South Africa

[TT Boy]

well Philander still deserves a spot and with 2 Steyn's we don't exactly need a third fast bowler. Also solves a bit of a long tail that SA has.

He doesn't and even if you are playing statistics, Friend of the Dolphins would get called up before and as Friend bowls 90mph, also bats and Kingsmead is his home ground, he would be the better call.

Also, de Wet is hardly a carbon copy of Steyn (de Wet isn’t a swing bowler). Friedel reminds me little bit of David Terbrugge, a former team mate. In that de Wet like Terbrugge is capable of getting it to seam late away from the right handers at a decent lick. Hugely impressive debut and he looked head and shoulders the best South African seamer in the first innings.

 

[BoyBrumby]

He was all over Broad, who he got out. Also Harris getting through a 45 second over alleviates pressure. An 8 ball, four minute Morne Morkel over was doing the trick. Swann didn’t have a clue what Morne was going to bowl; neither did Morne which made it even better - with Harris, unless you’re a leftie or Ian Bell, you shouldn’t be worried as he didn’t turn the ball all day.

Smith's captaincy for the final session was pitch perfect and I agree with Hussain, you can't blame the England batsman (KP aside), all of them got peaches. Great test match.

Slightly harsh for mine. Didn't do it often, but beat the outside edge a couple of times.

 

[Uppercut]

The one that got Cook turned and bounced, and the one that got Broad absolutely took off too. He was certainly dangerous, and at least he'd have made the batsman play every delivery. Ntini bowls a delivery that threatens the stumps about once every five overs, and has an even worse record against the tail than Andrew Flintoff.

Odd decision whichever way you look at it.

 

[Furball]

What about Prince and Amla? Even with Ntini dropped that would leave 3. That isnt ideal for SACB but 3 can be acceptable in the short term (even though 4 is the stated min desired/wanted/preferable).

If the best man for the job is white, he should be picked.

I'd hate for South African team selection to be hampered because of their Transformation targets - which I'm not sure need to exist at international level anymore.

 

[jboss]

If the best man for the job is white, he should be picked.

Unlikely as Ntini already showed by being selected for this match that form and best men are ignored by SA selectors.

 

[Beleg]

south africa's transformation targets are among the most racist things existant, and tolerated, in high level cricket at the moment. an absolute joke.

 

[jboss]

south africa's transformation targets are among the most racist things existant, and tolerated, in high level cricket at the moment. an absolute joke.

Not just cricket (where it is less felt) but in Rugby too. Funny how we were banned from all sports for racial policies in the past but now there is a blind eye. Further disgusting when you think that KP left becuase of it and now represents Eng and saves the game for them. So not only do we have a rascist system that goes against many players in this country but now othwe teams are allowed to save test matches/today) and series because of it (like the ashes).
Then CSA flap their arms at low crowd attendance figures and wonder why the cricket spectator wishes to pay to see their team narrowly miss out on a well deserved victory because some expat ****s can't make the SA team. Would you have KP or Amla as your no 3? i take KP ty. Would you have Trott who can play the short ball or JP at number 6? I would have Trott ty. Sadly we are a player short that came through u19 level for SA because Trott has gone elswhere after being exposed by CSA as a talent. Beleg did you play any MMO games?

 

[Goughy]

south africa's transformation targets are among the most racist things existant, and tolerated, in high level cricket at the moment. an absolute joke.

Being pragmatic, I think we should be a little relieved that the targets are how they are right now rather than how some in the ANC want.

Right now the PDP targets include all non-white South African cricketers. However, and possibly correctly, people have mentioned that the players coming through under the PDP umbrella are mainly coloured and they have a long history and culture of cricket and are themselves only a small minority in South Africa. There are accusations that the targets have not really helped bring new players to the top level.

For transformational targets to make the team more representative of the population there are some (indeed many) that have called for targets only to apply to Black Africans. If these people got their way then players like Amla and Prince would no longer be classed as PDP and target would only apply to Black Africans. Imagine how the SA team would look if the target was 4 Black Africans.

I dont know who they would be. Maybe Ntini, Tsotsobe, Zondeki and Tshabalala or Tsolekile.

Wouldnt be a terrible attack but also wouldnt be close to SAs best.

 

[TT Boy]

Not just cricket (where it is less felt) but in Rugby too. Funny how we were banned from all sports for racial policies in the past but now there is a blind eye. Further disgusting when you think that KP left becuase of it and now represents Eng and saves the game for them. So not only do we have a rascist system that goes against many players in this country but now othwe teams are allowed to save test matches/today) and series because of it (like the ashes).
Then CSA flap their arms at low crowd attendance figures and wonder why the cricket spectator wishes to pay to see their team narrowly miss out on a well deserved victory because some expat ****s can't make the SA team. Would you have KP or Amla as your no 3? i take KP ty. Would you have Trott who can play the short ball or JP at number 6? I would have Trott ty. Sadly we are a player short that came through u19 level for SA because Trott has gone elswhere after being exposed by CSA as a talent. Beleg did you play any MMO games?

KP bats 3 for England doesn't he?

 

[jboss]

We could do with a quota slector too in Omar Henry. At leat he looks at the facts of the last season and acknowledges Kuhn to be the best keeper batsman in this country and often goes into the obvious lack of captaincy skills shown by Smith.

 

[TT Boy]

We could do with a quota slector too in Omar Henry. At leat he looks at the facts of the last season and acknowledges Kuhn to be the best keeper batsman in this country and often goes into the obvious lack of captaincy skills shown by Smith.

Maybe you forgot but Omar Henry has already been a selector (was chief at one time). He took along with Eric Simons and Anton Ferreira South Africa from being number 1 to number 6 in mere months.

As for the rest. Bouch scored 100+ runs and took some blinders, yet you still harp on.

 

[Goughy]

Maybe you forgot but Omar Henry has already been a selector (was chief at one time). He took along with Eric Simons and Anton Ferreira South Africa from being number 1 to number 6 in mere months.

As for the rest. Bouch scored 100+ runs and took some blinders, yet you still harp on.

Spot on. Henry was terrible as selector. I remember Mike Haysman destroy him in an interview back in 04. Not the right guy for the job.

 

[jboss]

Maybe you forgot but Omar Henry has already been a selector (was chief at one time). He took along with Eric Simons and Anton Ferreira South Africa from being number 1 to number 6 in mere months.

As for the rest. Bouch scored 100+ runs and took some blinders, yet you still harp on.

And kuhn scores as many runs or probably more and takes equal catches and stumpings. Throw in the BS that AB does not want to take gloves because he is a better batsman then add the argument that Kuhn could do the same and make SA team anyway because he is "also" the worlds best batsman.

 

[Goughy]

Being pragmatic, I think we should be a little relieved that the targets are how they are right now rather than how some in the ANC want.

Right now the PDP targets include all non-white South African cricketers. However, and possibly correctly, people have mentioned that the players coming through under the PDP umbrella are mainly coloured and they have a long history and culture of cricket and are themselves only a small minority in South Africa. There are accusations that the targets have not really helped bring new players to the top level.

For transformational targets to make the team more representative of the population there are some (indeed many) that have called for targets only to apply to Black Africans. If these people got their way then players like Amla and Prince would no longer be classed as PDP and target would only apply to Black Africans. Imagine how the SA team would look if the target was 4 Black Africans.

I dont know who they would be. Maybe Ntini, Tsotsobe, Zondeki and Tshabalala or Tsolekile.

Wouldnt be a terrible attack but also wouldnt be close to SAs best.

If the target was 3 Black African players what would SA look like?

(Ignore the batting order listed- though a long tail)

1 Smith
2 Prince
3 Amla
4 Kallis
5 De Villiers
6 Duminy
7 Boucher
8 Tshabalala
9 Steyn
10 Ntini
11 Tsotsobe

 

[Pothas]

And kuhn scores as many runs or probably more and takes equal catches and stumpings. Throw in the BS that AB does not want to take gloves because he is a better batsman then add the argument that Kuhn could do the same and make SA team anyway because he is "also" the worlds best batsman.

You really are rather tiresome.

 

[TT Boy]

And kuhn scores as many runs or probably more and takes equal catches and stumpings. Throw in the BS that AB does not want to take gloves because he is a better batsman then add the argument that Kuhn could do the same and make SA team anyway because he is "also" the worlds best batsman.

What are you talking about?

Kuhn's keeping isn't comparable to Boucher. I wonder if you watch domestic cricket. Seems to me you just check out the stats of who is doing well currently and then put two and two together and get Philander. Watch the upcoming MTN games later this week and you will see Kuhn isn’t a ‘natural’ keeper. Fine batsman but as I said, Boucher is averaging comfortably over 30 in the last three years, scored 100 runs in this test, kept wonderfully and took a stunning catch to get rid of Bell. When South Africa’s top order isn’t contributing then you can question Boucher’s place but when most of them are averaging 50 plus in the last eighteen months, huge runs from your number seven isn’t that critical.

 

[Furball]

Stop quoting him ffs, he's on the ignore list for a reason.

 

[HeathDavisSpeed]

So, who comes in for Bell? Or do England decide to play 10 men as they won't see much difference in their batting?

 

[Goughy]

Kuhn's keeping isn't comparable to Boucher. I wonder if you watch domestic cricket. Seems to me you just check out the stats of who is doing well currently and then put two and two together and get Philander. Watch the upcoming MTN games later this week and you will see Kuhn isn’t a ‘natural’ keeper. Fine batsman but as I said, Boucher is averaging comfortably over 30 in the last three years, scored 100 runs in this test, kept wonderfully and took a stunning catch to get rid of Bell. When South Africa’s top order isn’t contributing then you can question Boucher’s place but when most of them are averaging 50 plus in the last eighteen months, huge runs from your number seven isn’t that critical.

Out of interest, why isnt he a 'natural keeper'? As you know I played with Kuhn and his keeping was never called into question

I dont think he should be in the national team right now but I dont question his keeping

 

[Pothas]

So, who comes in for Bell? Or do England decide to play 10 men as they won't see much difference in their batting?

Think Bell has to play the next test really, the performance of Broad and Prior this tests intstills little confidence in moving them up and playing an extra bowler and the prospect of Luke Wright in a test match is something that I just don't want to think about.