Sir Alex
Banned
Dhoni is a finisher and comparable to Hussey much better than Boucher.
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*Official* Sri Lanka in India
- Thread starter James
- Start date
Dhoni is a finisher and comparable to Hussey much better than Boucher.
Prince EWS
Global Moderator
Tends to bat up the order a lot these days though.
Sir Alex
Banned
It does not take away the tag of being a finisher from him. I don't think he bats frequently as he should at no.3 and no.4. His efforts in chases and remaining not out in winning chases is unparallelled today.
G.I.Joe
International Coach
yeah, but he only does so when the run rate needs to be upped. For instance, if the team is chasing 300+, or batting first on a flat deck where you need a very good RR going because the opposition could easily chase down that sort of score. Hussey would bat higher up too, were it not for Watson opening the batting, and Boucher doesn't bat higher up because frankly his game isn't suited for the long innings.
honestbharani
Whatever it takes!!!
Time to try out LR Shukla I think and play two spinners...
Arjun
Cricketer Of The Year
+50 on that.
LR Shukla has played 98 ODs, with 91 wickets under 30, and is in very good FC form. He's no longer that precocious youngster who needed to be backed, but a responsible senior player and captain of his team. He's a far better choice than Jadeja, and a second spinner (particularly Mishra or Ashwin) can come in.
Prince EWS
Global Moderator
Yeah, tend to agree. Jadeja cops way too much crap on this forum for a talented cricketer with a good domestic record who has held his own IMO, but as I said before I don't think he's the best option for team balance unless it's going to be an absolutely raging turner and India are comfortable with playing just two seamers. The selection of the bits-and-pieces role player actually seems to be dictating the balance of the specialist bowling lineup, when it really should be the other way around.
aussie
Hall of Fame Member
Saying he better than them in that role is bit of a stretch. But as mentioned by Prince EWS he seems to be batting up the order alot these days. I definately i agree he could be a very good finisher, but a very versatile ODI batsmen, only position he probably would look out of place in the top 7 is opening.
Arjun
Cricketer Of The Year
The likes of Jadeja, Ojha, Kohli and less so Tyagi and Karthik don't deserve to be in this team. A lot of them are raw youngsters who are in barely one or two seasons after they're out of U-19. They're too raw, too inexperienced and lack the knowledge to tackle different match situations. The whole team has to play around them to cover for them, which affects the team's performance. While their domestic records appear good, they may have a lot more going for them, and it's just one season in which they've done well.
On the contrary, older players like Shukla, Badrinath, Vijay and Mishra and, by a long shot Yusuf Pathan, can contribute a lot more to the team than these raw youngsters. We saw an experienced duo of Zaheer and Nehra swing things back for India in the final overs after the batsmen gobbled up Raina and Jadeja, while Bhajji was the best bowler on both sides. Even Lanka's best bowler was the experienced Dilhara. The selectors shouldn't look at age for selection- in fact, an older player with more match experience can contribute a lot more than these so-called promising youngsters with barely a season behind them.
On the contrary, older players like Shukla, Badrinath, Vijay and Mishra and, by a long shot Yusuf Pathan, can contribute a lot more to the team than these raw youngsters. We saw an experienced duo of Zaheer and Nehra swing things back for India in the final overs after the batsmen gobbled up Raina and Jadeja, while Bhajji was the best bowler on both sides. Even Lanka's best bowler was the experienced Dilhara. The selectors shouldn't look at age for selection- in fact, an older player with more match experience can contribute a lot more than these so-called promising youngsters with barely a season behind them.
aussie
Hall of Fame Member
I have seen no evidence that he outright "better" than them as ODI finishers whether playing the Bevan like achor role chasing a target or a Klusener/Symonds/Morkel type slog out batting first in the death overs while setting up a target.
If you say he is as good as them that would be fairer assesment, since i dont think there is much separating Hussey & Boucher as ODI finishers currently, all 3 are probably even.
Furball
Evil Scotsman
Try paying attention to his career then. 22 not outs in 34 innings when India have won batting 2nd is pretty damn impressive.
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Shri
Mr. Glass
Sir Alex
Banned
It is a myth that Hussey is a great finisher. He has stayed not out and guided his team to victory in only 11 matches in his entire career. And in that just 2 fifties. http://stats.cricinfo.com/ci/engine...=1;template=results;type=batting;view=innings
Boucher's case is better because of no. of matches he has played, he has 25 not outs in winning chases, but just 3 fiftieshttp://stats.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/44111.html?batting_fielding_first=2;class=2;filter=advanced;orderby=start;outs=0;result=1;template=results;type=batting;view=innings
Dhoni's case he has already 22 such not outs in winning chases, with 1 hundred and 8 50s. No comparison really. Dhoni is leagues ahead of Boucher and Hussey as finishers.http://stats.cricinfo.com/ci/engine...=1;template=results;type=batting;view=innings
In fact he's probably even better than bevan. Bevan had 25 such not outs in won chases, with a hundred and 8 fifties, while Dhoni has exactly same no. of 100s and 50s despite playing fewer games already!!
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aussie
Hall of Fame Member
The stats here have just innings in games won, fielding first & not-outs. Thats too small a criteria.
- A team can field first & lose a match & the player could have still played a superb finishing innings in the last 10 overs to help set up the 1st innings score.
- Or chasing a big total/challenging total in a lost, the player himself may have batted beautifully - but the team did crap/choked & the batsman was left stranded. Perfect example was Klusener in the 99 WC semi-final.
- Plus not-out innings need to be put into a proper context. If lets say batting first a team made 350 & "the finisher" during the last 10 overs made a 80 off 40 balls or something, but got out the last ball of the 50th over. Surely that 80 out is still as good as 80 not out.
Sir Alex
Banned
Sorry if a person cannot make his team win then he is not a good finisher. Klusener won games for SA to be called as a good finisher. Finishing refers to making a team win in a chase and not blind slogging in the last 10 oers because on his day any player can do that. In your second point, Klusener indeed choked. He did not see SA across the line and that will definitely discount him as a finisher. Reg your third point, such cases are rare and I ask you to quote such innings Hussey/Boucher played which put him above Dhoni.
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Dissector
International Debutant
Is it me or is Boucher rather heavily overrated as a batsman. Everytime he comes in commentators are always gushing about how tough a competitor he his but more often than not he doesn't do much. His record doesn't reveal an unusually high number of innings in high-pressure situations though obviously he has played a few.I don't see him as remotely good an ODI batsman as Dhoni in any situation.
aussie
Hall of Fame Member
No finishing an innings can apply to both setting a target while batting first or chasing a target. Although of course a chase would have more pressure.
Any player slog out at the death yes, but not every player can do it consistently. Players like Symonds, Flintoff, Klusener, Morkel, Razzaq, Cairns where # 6/7 sloggers who consistently in chases & batting first or chasing cleared the ropes at the death for their sides scoring 30-40 ball 50s. Instead of typical Bevan like finsish of a run-a-ball 50.
Na Klusener didn't choke in the 99 WC semi. He was left not out & Donald did crap by not running. No fault of the great Zulu..
He choked you could say in the 2003 WC opener vs WI, when he hold out on the boundary in the last over. (Although he batted excellently here).
It going to be alot for all 3 of them. Since as i said the criteria for a "finisher" isn't just runs in chases while being not out @ the end. Thats a statistical breakdown i honestly aint able go through for 3 men.
But i can easily say for Hussey as an AUS an who has seen 90-95% of his ODIs that he is without a doubt an excellent finisher, i dont need stats to prove this to TBH. That i'd put my head on block for.
aussie
Hall of Fame Member
. Well it doesn't need any stats to clearly disprove your poor argument that being a "finisher" is just limited to runs in a chase where the batsman is left not out.Other posters in the thread you just created "Best ODI finisher" have also made that point very clear to you. So i dont know what you gonna do son..