Steven Smith - Will he go anywhere?

[Richard]

If he gets his line and length sorted, then we should get a clearer picture to whether he will be threatening enough.

It wouldn't be that difficult to go and find 50 other bowlers who this statement could be applied to. There's a reason why almost everyone who's tried to bowl wristspin has found they don't have a hope of controlling it to the neccessary degree to bowl in First-Class cricket.

 

[Sylvester]

I know you can apply that every leg spinner to ever play the game. What I mean is, once he actually bowls more the right line and length we can get a better gague to how much turn he gets, drift, flight etc. And from that you have a better indication of how much of a threat is leg break can be.

We did it with White and found he gets no turn therefore he was never going to be a real threat. So far I've only seen Smith bowling short of length or full tosses as mentioned earlier where you can't really judge if he stock delivery will be a threat.

 

[NUFAN]

16 overs 0 wickets for 110 runs. rubbish.

 

[Richard]

I know you can apply that every leg spinner to ever play the game. What I mean is, once he actually bowls more the right line and length we can get a better gague to how much turn he gets, drift, flight etc.

No - if, not when. Most wristspinners don't do so; if he does he'll be one remarkable specimin.

 

[Sylvester]

Yes when, not if. You can't tell me that he will never land the ball in the right line and length. Consistency is another matter and even if he did become consistent, if his leg spin doesn't turn (aka White) then hes never going to be overly threatening.

 

[Top_Cat]

So he's he new Cam White, but without the handicap of being Victorian?

Yep. So, tipping him for 100+ Tests.

16 overs 0 wickets for 110 runs. rubbish.

In fairness, everyone went the journey once Hartley and the tail got into it. Incidentally, so good to see Harris back and batting well. Distinctly remember when he was struggling to even face A-graders in the nets.

 

[Richard]

Yes when, not if. You can't tell me that he will never land the ball in the right line and length. Consistency is another matter and even if he did become consistent, if his leg spin doesn't turn (aka White) then hes never going to be overly threatening.

Oh right, you mean one delivery, I was presuming you meant over the course of a lengthy period.

Well if he's still never yet managed to do that then that's rather worrying.

 

[NUFAN]

Yep. So, tipping him for 100+ Tests.



In fairness, everyone went the journey once Hartley and the tail got into it. Incidentally, so good to see Harris back and batting well. Distinctly remember when he was struggling to even face A-graders in the nets.

Granted I only saw the first 68 or so runs off his bowling, but it was rubbish. These runs came at a time when QLD were really struggling and Smith's woeful bowling helped Simpson who had just been hanging on prior to Smith coming on.

 

[Matt79]

So Victorians actually genuinely do believe this stuff about Australia selectors being biased against Victorian players?

Nah, its largely tongue in cheek, although enough Victorians seem to have undue difficulty being selected to give it some legs - there's plenty of smoke: off the top of my head in recent times Matty Elliott, Brad Hodge, David Hussey, Chris Rogers. Some examples are more egregious than others (Hodge is the stand out, and Rogers is currently very unlucky). And between the retirement of Merv Hughes and the selection of Peter Siddle, unless I'm forgetting someone, there was only one Vic who was able to retain a consistent place for more than a season in the XI - S.K. Warne.

Mainly its feeds into the NSW-Vic rivalry and the fact that NSW players seem to have the rub of the green sometimes with selection decisions (the whole baggy green comes with baggy blue thing). SA cricket fans (eg Top Cat) would have similar gripes about their players like Blewett, Lehmann (esp), Siddons.

 

[Prince EWS]

Nah, its largely tongue in cheek, although enough Victorians seem to have undue difficulty being selected to give it some legs - there's plenty of smoke: off the top of my head in recent times Matty Elliott, Brad Hodge, David Hussey, Chris Rogers. Some examples are more egregious than others (Hodge is the stand out, and Rogers is currently very unlucky). And between the retirement of Merv Hughes and the selection of Peter Siddle, unless I'm forgetting someone, there was only one Vic who was able to retain a consistent place for more than a season in the XI - S.K. Warne.

Mainly its feeds into the NSW-Vic rivalry and the fact that NSW players seem to have the rub of the green sometimes with selection decisions (the whole baggy green comes with baggy blue thing). SA cricket fans (eg Top Cat) would have similar gripes about their players like Blewett, Lehmann (esp), Siddons.

The theory is debunked by Siddle himself though, really - the selectors certainly didn't have to pick him when they did as he had barely any First Class experience and had been outbowled in the Shield by other candidates even when he was there (not to say he did poorly or anything, but still). If Bollinger was Victorian and Siddle was a New South Welshman, Siddle's original selection would no doubt be used as an example of anti-Victorian bias.. not to mention White's consistent inclusion as a bowler in India as well.

There's no doubt that there have been a few unlucky Victorians in recent times - a few more than from the other states, even - but I don't think it's anything more than coincidence. If the selectors truly were biased there's no way Siddle would've been picked when he was, IMO.

 

[vic_orthdox]

Matthew Inness missing out to Nathan Bracken was super stiff, IMO.

 

[NUFAN]

Rogers Hodge Hussey White McDonald Siddle Nannes McKay McGain Holland have all been picked in Australian squads in the last few years.

The bias has long gone IMO, especially with Hughes selecting.

 

[Matt79]

I did say it was largely tongue in cheek and a product of a broader NSW-Vic rivalry, didn't I?

 

[vic_orthdox]

Rogers was playing for WA at the time, FTR.

 

[Matt79]

Rogers was playing for WA at the time, FTR.

Yeah, killed his career by moving across the Nullabor to the wrong state - unlike Katich who saved his by moving to Sydney

 

[NUFAN]

Yeah so he was. QLD the hard done by state IMO.

 

[Matt79]

Yeah so he was. QLD the hard done by state IMO.

 

[NUFAN]

Nice. Ben Laughlin was pretty lucky too I guess.

 

[aussie]

Matthew Inness missing out to Nathan Bracken was super stiff, IMO.

I presume you are refering to test cricket & Bracken's selection vs IND 03/04?. If so would have to disagree slightly. Bracken's bowling performace in the TVS Cup in IND (with no McGrath, Dizzy, Lee available) before that test series on the back of two really impressive years in ODI set-up. Really demanded selection TBF.

 

[Top_Cat]

Nah, its largely tongue in cheek, although enough Victorians seem to have undue difficulty being selected to give it some legs - there's plenty of smoke: off the top of my head in recent times Matty Elliott, Brad Hodge, David Hussey, Chris Rogers. Some examples are more egregious than others (Hodge is the stand out, and Rogers is currently very unlucky). And between the retirement of Merv Hughes and the selection of Peter Siddle, unless I'm forgetting someone, there was only one Vic who was able to retain a consistent place for more than a season in the XI - S.K. Warne.

Mainly its feeds into the NSW-Vic rivalry and the fact that NSW players seem to have the rub of the green sometimes with selection decisions (the whole baggy green comes with baggy blue thing). SA cricket fans (eg Top Cat) would have similar gripes about their players like Blewett, Lehmann (esp), Siddons.

No idea how much I adore that you're lumping Siddons in with SA. Especially since he was a Vic when he actually played his 1 ODI.

All I'll say is this; for so many years, when presented with two players of apparently equal case for selection, it was amazing how often the blue bagger would get the nod. Mark Taylor vs Tom Moody Ashes 1989, Slater vs Hayden Ashes 1993, Bracken/Inness-gate, Bevvo vs Lehmann, etc.

Matthew Inness missing out to Nathan Bracken was super stiff, IMO.

My outrage from the time is recorded on these forums. Utterly sucked that he wasn't even tried, especially considering his Aus A record at the time.