**Official** Pakistan in New Zealand (3 tests)

[Howsie]

Have you seen Hamish Bennett bowl or followed him closely?

Yes and kind of, why?

 

[Athlai]

As do most people, me included. But as your've already stated, stats don't mean everything. Jesse Ryder two years ago looked like a poor selection for the one day team, yet his natural ablity allowed for him to be successful at this level.

At the same time didn't Ryder have a massive FC record and a hefty strike rate in that form? Not to sure but Im sure he had great form coming into the team. I remember I was a bit pessimistic about his List A record but he just blasted off.

 

[Howsie]

Keep up the solid work.

 

[Flem274*]

As do most people, me included. But as your've already stated, stats don't mean everything. Jesse Ryder two years ago looked like a poor selection for the one day team, yet his natural ablity allowed for him to be successful at this level.

Difference is A) he had proven he was a high quality FC batsman

B) He is a very special talent

Is Bennett special, really special? No disrespect to him intended but no he is not

 

[Athlai]

Keep up the solid work.

There was just a lot wrong with the post re. Wagner and choosing a specialist quick to bowl 10-15 overs a day.

 

[Flem274*]

Yes and kind of, why?

He's so inconsistent with everything. The only bowler more crazy is James McMillan (or if you want a test comparison, Mark Gillespie and Ian Butler). One week he's God then for five weeks he's poo, sometimes he's not even quick. If he can get some consistency going then great but we don't need a bowler all over the show in the test side.

 

[Howsie]

At the same time didn't Ryder have a massive FC record and a hefty strike rate in that form? Not to sure but Im sure he had great form coming into the team. I remember I was a bit pessimistic about his List A record but he just blasted off.

Yea because sometimes the selectors actually do something right, they find players with talent and look past stats. Heck, if we used stats for everything Greg Hay might be fighting for his place in the test team and Daniel Flynn might of be struggling to keep his place in the ND team.

 

[Flem274*]

Yea because sometimes the selectors actually do something right, they find players with talent and look past stats. Heck, if we used stats for everything Greg Hay might be fighting for his place in the test team and Daniel Flynn might of be struggling to keep his place in the ND team.

Daniel Flynn deserves to be back in ND.

 

[Howsie]

There was just a lot wrong with the post re. Wagner and choosing a specialist quick to bowl 10-15 overs a day.

Okay so ten might be a tad low, nothing wrong with a specialist quick bowling 15 overs a day though. Everything I said about Wagner's true however.

 

[Bahnz]

I love how this great debate about how we need to get some raw pace and new blood in the team is only coming up now. When we dismissed pakistan for under 300 five times in a row there was no talk about our useless medium pacers, but now that the goings a bit tougher we can't drop them quick enough!

Howsie needs to see things in perspective. Today, Daryl Tuffey scored nearly as many runs as our entire side managed barely a week ago. And Iain O'Brien ran in and produced a spell of fast (at consistently 145, probably easily as quick as any bowler in the country), accurate bowling and never once had the opposition batsmen looking in any trouble. This is the kind of pitch where Shane Bond at his absolute peak would struggle to make an impression. To draw the conclusion that after a couple of sessions of fruitless labour our bowling lineup needs a makeover is completely stupid.

 

[Flem274*]

Okay so ten might be a tad low, nothing wrong with a specialist quick bowling 15 overs a day though. Everything I said about Wagner's true however.

As i recall you were pretty gaga over Wagner when you thought he was quick.

Then after 130-135kph in the Champions League you suddenly went off him.

Coincidence of course, right?

 

[Flem274*]

i love how this great debate about how we need to get some raw pace and new blood in the team is only coming up now. When we dismissed pakistan for under 300 five times in a row there was no talk about our useless medium pacers, but now that the goings a bit tougher we can't drop them quick enough!

Howsie needs to see things in perspective. Today, daryl tuffey scored nearly as many runs as our entire side managed barely a week ago. And iain o'brien ran in and produced a spell of fast (at consistently 145, probably easily as quick as any bowler in the country), accurate bowling and never once had the opposition batsmen looking in any trouble. This is the kind of pitch where shane bond at his absolute peak would struggle to make an impression. To draw the conclusion that after a couple of sessions of fruitless labour our bowling lineup needs a makeover is completely stupid.

awta

 

[Howsie]

Daniel Flynn deserves to be back in ND.

In reference to the 2008 England touring team when a kid averaging low 30's was selected over some "beast" averaging 50 odd in every format.

 

[Flem274*]

In reference to the 2008 England touring team when a kid averaging low 30's was selected over some "beast" averaging 50 odd in every format.

It was a horrible selection because whats Flynn doing now? Sucking, like I predicted when he was picked.

Hay might have at least done a Sinclair and unlike Flynn and James Marshall who were picked ahead of him, he'd made batting look easy his whole career. Even if it had been two seasons, it was two seasons of quality as opposed to Flynns one season.

 

[Howsie]

As i recall you were pretty gaga over Wagner when you thought he was quick.

Then after 130-135kph in the Champions League you suddenly went off him.

Coincidence of course, right?

Doubt it. I watched a few 20/20's on TV and thought Wagner looked decent (he was swinging the ball back in with decent looking pace) But he looked god awful in the Champions League and was bowling at pretty average speed.

After hearing all the hype I was actually disappointed at how bad he was, safe to say Boult's a far better prospect.

 

[99*]

Every post since the close of play about needing different bowlers in the side =

Biggest over-reaction.

 

[Prince EWS]

I love how this great debate about how we need to get some raw pace and new blood in the team is only coming up now. When we dismissed pakistan for under 300 five times in a row there was no talk about our useless medium pacers, but now that the goings a bit tougher we can't drop them quick enough

It's always the way with medium-fast-based attacks or even attacks that are similar in general. It only takes one game of them not doing particularly well as a unit before the FBC members come out of the woodwork and start complaining about the lack of fire-power or - my personal favourite - the "sameness" of the attack.

An attack like this does just give off the vibe of being toothless when things aren't going well, but I'm yet to be convinced that these sort of attacks are any less effective in terms of actual results than attacks with more variety and/or 'firepower', assuming the same general quality of the bowlers. It certainly seems that way when you're watching it, but I think it's a natural bias - when an attack with a genuine quick in it or several different types of bowlers is ineffective for an innings, people just write it off as a bad day and move on purely on the aesthetics and feel of the game, but it happens all the time. If New Zealand had picked a bunch of tearaway bowlers and a leg spinner and they got belted, I really doubt many people would be in here saying "what we need is some really accurate, tall medium-fast bowlers who move the ball both ways off the seam and bowl a really tight line on off stump" - but these bowlers have proven to be just as effective over time as tearaway quicks, so if these are the best bowlers (in terms of actual results) you have available, these are the bowlers you should be picking.

 

[Athlai]

Doubt it. I watched a few 20/20's on TV and thought Wagner looked decent (he was swinging the ball back in with decent looking pace) But he looked god awful in the Champions League and was bowling at pretty average speed.

After hearing all the hype I was actually disappointed at how bad he was, safe to say Boult's a far better prospect.

Wasn't he easily Otago's best bowler?

 

[Flem274*]

Doubt it. I watched a few 20/20's on TV and thought Wagner looked decent (he was swinging the ball back in with decent looking pace) But he looked god awful in the Champions League and was bowling at pretty average speed.

After hearing all the hype I was actually disappointed at how bad he was, safe to say Boult's a far better prospect.

So in other words, I'm right that you went off him in the Champions League where there were slow speedgun readings?

IF he was swinging the ball back in at decent pace as you say, then he should be able to do it again. Shouldn't be written off by any means if he can do that effectively considering the earliest he can legally play international cricket is 2011 anyway.

 

[Prince EWS]

In reference to the 2008 England touring team when a kid averaging low 30's was selected over some "beast" averaging 50 odd in every format.

Yeah, we know what happened. The point is that it's hardly a great example on your behalf because Flynn's turned out pretty much exactly how myself and Flem thought he would at the time. The selectors haven't really been vindicated by that selection.