The best batsman and bowler of the 1990s

[Ikki]

Tendulkar averaged in the 30s (36) and Lara averaged in the 20s (24). What straws am I clutching at ? Are you telling me for sure that Lara's average WOULD HAVE improved had he played more games ? Can you tell me for sure that Lara WOULD HAVE not failed miserably against Ambrose and Walsh ? Both are just speculations. Go by what you have, not what you don't.

Because you're trying to use 1 test to illustrate Lara's quality. Dude, I think Tendulkar was better in the 90s, but this is simply rubbish.

I don't know if Lara would have done well against Imran, I don't know if he would have failed either. So what I try to do is look at enough games that would give me some help in determining that. But 1 test is certainly not enough so I don't entertain the thought seriously one way or another

Speaking of clutching at straws, you are the one doing it.

I used matches in which Donald and Pollock both played together, and Tendulkar comes out averaging a full 5 points more. Clear so far ?

You said that is irrelevant because using the either/or query, that is matches in which either Donald or Pollock or both played, both Tendulkar and Lara averaged 33.

Therefore I used the either matches in which McGrath played or Warne played or both, and Tendulkar comes out with an average 3 points better than Lara. Clear ?

I didn't say it's irrelevant, Tendulkar did do better against both. But then again it hides the fact that Tendulker did worse when there was only 1 of them, which you would think was easier. You're trying to concoct a number that makes him look better when it's pretty well known Tendulkar has trouble against S.Africa and has always had it.

And you're again clutching at straws, how many tests did Tendulkar play against Warne and McGrath both in the same match for instance? 2? Compared to Lara who played them 12 tests. Unless you have a good number of games to judge on, these averages don't mean much.

Let me try to make my point even clearer:

If player A averages 51 against McGrath and Warne in 1 match and player B averages 50 against McGrath and Warne in 15 matches...who would you think is more certain to succeed? Or, does player A or player B have the better record against McGrath and Warne?

 

[bagapath]

1. Against either McGrath or Warne

BC Lara (WI) 27 50 2 2408 277 50.16 3962 60.77 7 9 4 318 17
SR Tendulkar (India) 14 26 2 1279 177 53.29 2006 63.75 5 6 2 161 13

Sachin is better.


2. Against both McGrath and Warne


BC Lara (WI) 15 28 2 1388 226 53.38 2371 58.54 4 5 1 187 8
SR Tendulkar (India) 7 14 0 592 126 42.28 1067 55.48 2 4 1 76 3

Lara is better

3. Against either Pollock or Donald

BC Lara (WI) 16 31 0 1326 202 42.77 2630 50.41 2 9 1 194 12
SR Tendulkar (India) 18 33 2 1105 169 35.64 2259 48.91 3 4 2 166 5

Lara is better

4. Against both Pollock and Donald

BC Lara (WI) 9 18 0 600 83 33.33 1280 46.87 0 5 1 89 3
SR Tendulkar (India) 5 10 0 387 169 38.70 721 53.67 1 1 0 58 2

Sachin is better.

 

[Avada Kedavra]

Wait a minute. Lara played less tests against Imran Khan so he averaged less.

Tendulkar played less tests against Mcgrath and Warne, therefore he averaged more.

Can you imagine how biased you sound ? Your double standards are very apparent.

 

[Ikki]

Wait a minute. Lara played less tests against Imran Khan so he averaged less.

Tendulkar played less tests against Mcgrath and Warne, therefore he averaged more.

Can you imagine how biased you sound ? Your double standards are very apparent.

how? I am saying in both instances where there are too few tests you can't make any strong inferences. That goes for Lara's 1 test against Imran or Tendulkar's 2 tests against McGrath and Warne.

BTW, thanks Bagapath, but those figures look like they are for their whole careers. How about just the 90s?

 

[Avada Kedavra]

Tendulkar played more than 2 tests against McGrath and Warne. Inserting smileys when you have no answer is all well and good, but it doesn't hide your double standards.

Yes or no answers then since you seem to be slow on the uptake

Who was better against McGrath and Warne ?

Who was better against Donald and Pollock ?

You can't have both for Lara like I said. Whatever criterion you use, Tendulkar will share the honours.

 

[Avada Kedavra]

Donald has dismissed Lara 6 times in 10 matches. On the other hand, he has dismissed Tendulkar 5 times in 11 matches. Sachin wins

Pollock has dismissed Lara 3 times in 15 matches. He has dismissed Tendulkar 4 times in 12 matches. Lara wins

Warne has dismissed Tendulkar 3 times in 12 matches (2 of them contentious decisions I believe but anyway). He has dismissed Lara 7 times in 20 matches. Tendulkar wins

Mcgrath has dismissed Sachin 6 times in 9 games. He has dismissed Lara 15 times in 24 games. Sachin wins.

3-1 to Sachin here.

 

[Lillian Thomson]

This is surely Precambrian on the come-back trail.

 

[Ikki]

Tendulkar played more than 2 tests against McGrath and Warne. Inserting smileys when you have no answer is all well and good, but it doesn't hide your double standards.

Yes or no answers then since you seem to be slow on the uptake

Who was better against McGrath and Warne ?

Who was better against Donald and Pollock ?

You can't have both for Lara like I said. Whatever criterion you use, Tendulkar will share the honours.

How would you like to break them up then? In that period both Warne and McGrath were injured so they didn't play much together. Doing an either/or just dilutes the figures.

Aus:
Tendulkar against McGrath: 3 tests averaging 39.83
Tendulkar against Warne : 7 tests averaging 84.60

Lara against McGrath: 13 tests averaging 52.27
Lara against Warne : 16 tests averaging 55.80

S.A.:
Tendulkar against Donald: 9 tests averaging 32.00
Tendulkar against Pollock: 3 tests averaging 40.00

Lara against Donald: 6 tests averaging 32.58
Lara against Pollock: 5 tests averaging 31.00

---

For me, Lara was better against the Aussies and both were just as bad as each other against S.Africa.

 

[Ikki]

And Lara may have played more against McGrath, he was also dismissed by McGrath a lot more. Tendulkar has been dismissed by McGrath 6 times from memory. For Lara, the corresponding number is a whooping 16 times. If you do a dismissal/match ratio, Tendulkar still comes out on top.

Who cares how many times he dismissed Lara? Lara clearly got the better of McGrath on several occasions whereas Tendulkar, even if he was dismissed less by McGrath, had much more trouble against him.

 

[bagapath]

This is surely Precambrian on the come-back trail.

Precambrian is like Barry Richards. Became an all-time legend in a short span. You still remember him after all these years?

 

[Avada Kedavra]

Who cares how many times he dismissed Lara? Lara clearly got the better of McGrath on several occasions whereas Tendulkar, even if he was dismissed less by McGrath, had much more trouble against him.

Haha he had less trouble but yet was dismissed more frequently. Now you will be wanting to count how many times he beat the outside edge LOL

 

[Lillian Thomson]

Precambrian is like Barry Richards. Became an all-time legend in a short span. You still remember him after all these years?

He was still posting in various guises earlier this year and I'm reminded of him every time an idiot turns up.

 

[Ikki]

Haha he had less trouble but yet was dismissed more frequently. Now you will be wanting to count how many times he beat the outside edge LOL

He averages 52.27 in matches against McGrath compared to Tendulkar's 39.83. So because after piling on runs he got out to McGrath, his record is inferior now?

 

[Avada Kedavra]

And for me Tendulkar was better against Australia. Lara's average down under is <50 unless I am much mistake. Tendulkar's is about 56.

 

[Avada Kedavra]

He averages 52.27 in matches against McGrath compared to Tendulkar's 39.83. So because after piling on runs he got out to McGrath, his record is inferior now?

Yes harp about Lara's average against McGrath but yet ignore his average against Warne, Pollock and Donald. You are unbelievable.

 

[Avada Kedavra]

He was still posting in various guises earlier this year and I'm reminded of him every time an idiot turns up.

I have no idea what you are talking about. But judging by your posts, this world would have been a much better place if your mother had kept her legs closed.

 

[Lillian Thomson]

I have no idea what you are talking about. But judging by your posts, this world would have been a much better place if your mother had kept her legs closed.

Facile denial. Precambrian's most striking trait.

 

[Avada Kedavra]

Facile denial. Precambrian's most striking trait.

Was this dude your father ?

 

[Lillian Thomson]

Was this dude your father ?

Lame jokes about parentage. Another Precambrian classic.

 

[Avada Kedavra]

Lame jokes about parentage. Another Precambrian classic.

I merely posed a question. Do I take that as a yes ?