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*Official* Australia in India - ODIs

bagapath

International Captain
I don't think it's any one person but something that is sometimes pretty obvious to spot. I think it's the sign of an educated mind to be able to do so (be fair, that is), but it often gets tedious seeing it post after post.
I think it is also cultural. Despite the similar IQ levels of most us, the CW posters belong to different countries/cultures/age groups. There is bound to be a bit of hemming and hawing from some and a bit of brash talking from others. I guess we are lucky to have cricket based conversations beyond the corner pub where everyone is likely to have different views but express them in more or less similar terms.

Yeah, I think you misunderstood what I meant. I didn't mean they were gods in the sense that you worshipped them, but gods in the sense that you seem to make out as if they were infallible.
This is probably cultural as well. I get you now.

What happened last night was also cultural. Aussies just stuck to the basics of the game and held their nerves. Indians, as always, allowed the moment to get the better of them
 
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SJS

Hall of Fame Member
It is amazing to read some people going on and on about Tendulkar some how being the "villain of the piece" for having got out before the target was achieved (its difficult to get out after it is actually) and reminding us of it having happened before with Sachin. Since stats is all some people understand of cricket lets look at stats.

The difficulty of winning a match off one's own blade is greater with biger targets. It is when you are chasing a really big target (or trying to put up a big score) that you will, irrespective of how great an innings you play, need the support of other batsmen in the side. Thus Laxman could not have got us on the road to that tremendous win over Australia in Kolkata if Dravid had not stayed with him for more than a day scoring a massive 180 off his own. Similarly when Gavaskar played that fabulous 221 in England chasing over 400 to win on the last day of the match, we do not blame him for getting out with India at 389 for 4 and still 19 runs short, That we did not make it was because Vishwanath, Yajuvendra Singh and Yashpal Sharma did not rise to the occasion. Gavaskar's innings is regarded all over the world as one of the greatest of all time. His getting out 19 runs short of the target does not diminish it one bit.

But we digress. We are with ODI's.

Lets get this much straight. If India had won yesterday, it would have been the second highest successful run chase in the history of the one day game. Only the 435 chased by South Africa in that Amazing game at wanderers four years ago set a stiffer target. The fact that India still got within four runs is remarkable.

Next. India has successfully chased a score above 300 only 7 times in all. The highest being the 326 at Lord's in the 2002 Natwest trophy. So how many times did the top scorer (or even the second highest scorer) of the side take India to victory in a run chase. Lets check it out. These are listed in the order of the size of target, starting with the smallest.

Match : 2007-08 Asia Cup
Against : Pakistan
Target : 300
Final Score : 301 for 4
MOM : S.K Raina


  • [*]Sehwag top scored with a century but got out 70 short of the target.
    [*]Raina was second highest scorer (and man of the match) but got out even before Sehwag.
  • Yuvraj (48) and Dhoni(26*) took India closer to the target although Yuvraj got out just 4 short of the target.


Match : 1999-2000
Against : South Africa
Target : 302
Final Score : 302 for 7
MOM : Ajay Jadeja
  • Man of the Match and top scorer with 92, Ajay Jadeja got out 30 short of the target.
  • Azhar (42) who had a big partnership with Jadeja had got out earlier.
  • Robin Singh(42) then took India to the target in the company of keeper Dighe 5 and Kumble 7 not out.

Match : 2007-08 Asia Cup
Against : Sri Lanka
Target : 309
Final Score : 310 for four
MOM : M S Dhoni
  • Gambhir top scored with 68 but got out early (135 for 2)
  • Dhoni (67) had partnerships with Raina (54) and Yuvraj(36*) but fell 56 short of the target.
  • Raina had fallen earlier 75 short of the target.
  • The six batsmen who batted scored (in batting order) 68, 42, 54, 67, 36* and 42*

Match : 1997-1998 Silver Jubilee Independence Cup
Against : Pakistan
Target : 315
Final Score : 316 for seven
MOM : S.C Ganguly
  • Man of the Match Ganguly top scored with 124 but fell 41 short of target.
  • Robin Singh was second highest (82) but fell 47 short of target.
  • Azhar(4), Jadeja(8) and Siddhu (5) also did not stay till the end.
  • It was left to the lower order Kanitkar (11*), Mongia (9) and Srinath (5*) to see India home
.

Match : 2007 England v India - 6th Match
Against : England
Target : 317
Final Score : 317 for eight
MOM : S.R Tendulkar

  • [*]Tendulkar top scored with a quickfire 94 but was out early (156 for 2)
    [*]Second top scorer Ganguly(53) had got out even earlier
  • Gambhir (47) got out with India still 83 short
  • Dhoni (35) had a partnership with Uthappa but he too fell and India were still 23 short.
  • Uthappa struggled on in the company of tail enders Agarkar 1, Zaheer 0 and Ramesh Powar 0* to take India home with 2 balls to spare !!
Match : 2002-2003 India v West Indies - 4th Match
Against : Windies
Target : 325
Final Score : 325 for 5
MOM : Rahul Dravid
  • Dravid top scored with 109 and remained unbeaten to take India home.
  • Laxman (66) and Bangar (57*) shared big partnerships with Dravid

Match : Final of 2002 NatWest Series
Against : England
Target : 326
Final Score : 326 for 8
MOM : Mohd Kaif

  • This is the one big chase in which the top scorer played on in the company of lower order batsmen to take India home in a sensational game. Its important to remember though that this man, Kaif, himself came in at number 6.
  • After a great start by Sehwag 45 and Ganguly 60 India lost their way and were struggling at 146 for 5.
  • Yuvraj was now joined by young Kaif.
  • Yuvraj took the bowling by the scruff of the neck and scored a brilliant 67 but a full 59 runs short of the target Yuvraj fell.
  • Kaif, in the company of Harbhajan, Kumble and Zaheer saw India home with 3 balls to spare.

So. Its not very common for the top scorer in a run chase to stay on till the end and see the team through the winning post. Its even more uncommon for such a top scorer to be the opener.

That does not mean the openers who score big runs and contribute greatly to the teams chances are to be run down for not remaining unbeaten.
 

G.I.Joe

International Coach
The irony is that people wouldn't have rushed to pen articles on the apparent 'choke' had Tendulkar not scored 175 and made a match of it. If he'd gotten out for a 50 off 40 balls, it would have been regarded as the inevitable best one could do given the failure of the bowlers earlier. Damned if you score, damned if you don't.
 

Top_Cat

Request Your Custom Title Now!
The irony is that people wouldn't have rushed to pen articles on the apparent 'choke' had Tendulkar not scored 175 and made a match of it. If he'd gotten out for a 50 off 40 balls, it would have been regarded as the inevitable best one could do given the failure of the bowlers earlier. Damned if you score, damned if you don't.
Should just give it away, especially before the next series Aus plays against India in any form of the game.

Seriously Sachin, we've seen enough. We get it. You're awesome. Just showing off now.
 
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SJS

Hall of Fame Member
Just to add to this.
Besides the 7 instances of India successfully chasing 300(or more) targets in ODI's, there are another 20 by other countries. Of these there is just one, yes a solitary instance, of a top scorer remaining not out in a run chase. Younis Kahn scored 124 not out in this match against India in July 2008. Pakistan won comfortably by eight wickets in 45.3 overs !!

Oh yes, there is not a SINGLE instance of an opening batsman remaining unbeaten in a successful run chase of over 300 runs in the history of the game.

Finally, Sachin's 175 is the joint highest score (with Gibbs in that game at Wabderers) in a chase involving a target of 300 plus and is the second highest(joint with Gibbs of course) score in ODI's batting second. Dhoni's unbeaten 183 against Sri Lanka in 2005 being the highest.
 

Arjun

Cricketer Of The Year
Here's a review of the last match in one line- Bring back Yusuf Pathan!

The series seems to be a very close one, but India have some areas of genuine weakness. To begin, there's virtually no chance of them chasing a massive total as this 350, and it's only a matter of good luck that they amassed 347 just within 50 overs. You can't blame the batsmen for throwing their wickets away; the pressure of chasing a total as high as this always tells on the fielding side. The bowlers are guilty of giving it away, least of all Munaf Patel and Ravi Jadeja, both inferior replacements for missing (or discarded) players. This isn't about a few batsmen throwing their wickets away when they were set. This is about batsmen who looked completely out of their depth in a high-scoring encounter. This is about bowlers who struggle to survive on a flat deck. This isn't about squandered opportunities like in Mohali, but about obvious weaknesses and inadequacies. They can't afford to keep giving away totals so big, as it's almost impossible.

The position of the all-rounder is a big one- Shane Watson is lightyears ahead of both Yuvraj and Ravi Jadeja. Watto revels in bowling duties and gets wickets that change a match, and has done it twice in a row. On the other hand, Yuvraj Singh's bowling has been atrocious, and is reflected in his average of 79. Worse still, his batting average is a paltry 30, and when your team is trailing this series, it's inadequate. When it's got one of your top three batsmen struggling, you know something is seriously wrong with it. It's a double-blow here, as you not only have a mediocre all-rounder, but you also lose one of your prime batsmen. As for Jadeja, the flat-deck encounter found him wanting with bat and ball. They'd get more out of frontline bowlers Harbhajan and Praveen, or the benched Mishra or recovering Zaheer, collectively, than out of him alone.

The biggest problem, however, is that of player management. It has been completely shoddy and, may I say, destructive. They've lost a lot of talented players, not just due to injury, but also declining form, but the replacements have been inadequate. While we talk so much of the Aussies winning even with a depleted side, they use their limited resources a lot better- both players' skill and team management win the games for them. Planning at the camp, preparatory drills and a clear role for each player makes a difference. The Indians, axing player after player, are depleting their own resources with bad management and the results show. Every defeat weakens the team further. You can make a proper playing XI out of the players that have been lost, but a lot of the current replacements are not good enough. Each time the team fails, some players are blamed and lose their places, but the management seems to get away with their failures, time and again.

Questions may be raised about whether Hyderabad should get any more international matches. The Indians have a weakness on flat decks, yet Hyderabad repeatedly offer a flat deck for a game. This has often happened when a State association serves up a bad pitch or one where the Indians are found wanting, like Nagpur in 2004. All teams enjoy a lot of home advantage, except possibly Sri Lanka with their roulette ODIs in their grounds, where the toss decides the game. India don't seem too strong at home in comparison. Although we don't want a pitch like the one in Delhi these days or that in Mumbai five years ago, when a venue offers a pitch so skewed against the home team, so often, something is wrong here.

It's also a surprise that Guwahati gets a match in this series. Their management of international matches in the past has been quite bad, and the city these days isn't safe either.
 

SJS

Hall of Fame Member
India lost the match by bowling badly and fielding atrociously.

The batting could have been better but then Sachin could have 0played a slightly less luminous innings and they would have still fallen short of the target.

No. India did a great job to get to 347 and almost comfortably. Their bowlers and fielders lost the game.
 

Pratters

Cricket, Lovely Cricket
It is amazing to read some people going on and on about Tendulkar some how being the "villain of the piece" for having got out before the target was achieved (its difficult to get out after it is actually) and reminding us of it having happened before with Sachin.
It is amazing how some people exaggerate. Exactly who has said Tendulkar is the villain of the piece here? NO ONE. **** off with your biased accusations. Jono and I have simply said Tendulkar played a flawed shot and in that he choked (it is subjective whether he did but some one can surely have that opinion). Even then we have emphasised that other players choked more than Tendulkar did and Tendulkar is not solely responsible for losing us the match at all. In fact he did all in his power to almost win us the game.

Also, the pitch was flat. Dhoni said during the match ceremony that they had to get whatever Australia made. I wouldn't blame the bowlers too much on this pitch. There was nothing much they could have done. The batsmen barring Raina - no one supported Tendulkar - so there is certainly a lot to blame in that department.
 
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Pratters

Cricket, Lovely Cricket
The irony is that people wouldn't have rushed to pen articles on the apparent 'choke' had Tendulkar not scored 175 and made a match of it. If he'd gotten out for a 50 off 40 balls, it would have been regarded as the inevitable best one could do given the failure of the bowlers earlier. Damned if you score, damned if you don't.
Putting your team in a good position or winnable position does not give you the license to play a poor shot to put your team in a worse position than they are at the moment before. This is a key aspect which has to be understood. One can be appreciative of the inning while at the same time, critical of the shot Tendulkar played.
 
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G.I.Joe

International Coach
Putting your team in a good position or winnable position does not give you the license to play a poor shot to put your team in a worse position than they are at the moment before. This is a key aspect which has to be understood. One can be appreciative of the inning while at the same time, critical of the shot Tendulkar played.
The difference is that some people know when the innings overshadows the dismissal, rather than the other way round. You're not grasping this. I give your understanding of the situation a 3/10.
 

Pratters

Cricket, Lovely Cricket
The difference is that some people know when the innings overshadows the dismissal, rather than the other way round. You're not grasping this. I give your understanding of the situation a 3/10.
The inning overshadowed the dismissal. You are absolutely right there which is why Tendulkar had the MOM. Also, coming from you, that's very good ratings if my measuring scale is to be taken into account. :p
 

G.I.Joe

International Coach
The inning overshadowed the dismissal. You are absolutely right there which is why Tendulkar had the MOM. Also, coming from you, that's very good ratings if my measuring scale is to be taken into account. :p
Hey, I'm spending my time moping around because a girl won't return my calls. Every other situation pales into insignificance. :ph34r:
 

Nate

You'll Never Walk Alone
Yeah, pretty bemused at the discussion. He made 175, plays a bad shot, and it's all you can talk about. Great people. Could he have been fatigued? Doesn't matter, lol, should've have batted the fifty.
 

vic_orthdox

Global Moderator
I'm not saying that he didn't make an error, and that it wasn't a costly one. However, one bad decision does not equal "choking". If he had've been losing his brain for an over before that, trying to play left handed slog sweeps, then maybe...
 

Top_Cat

Request Your Custom Title Now!
Yeah, pretty bemused at the discussion. He made 175, plays a bad shot, and it's all you can talk about. Great people. Could he have been fatigued? Doesn't matter, lol, should've have batted the fifty.
Yeah don't agree it was a choke. He made a mistake but he did everything short of scoring every run required himself. Took a punt that didn't come off. As GI Joe said, had he done that with 50 on the board, there'd be no suggestion of a choke.
 

four_or_six

Cricketer Of The Year
Clarke, Watson keys for future - Cricket - Sport - theage.com.au

In game one, with his team in virtually an unbeatable position, he delivered arguably the worst over seen by an Australian in one-day cricket. One wide full toss followed another, 20 runs were scored, and Australia just scraped home. Three days later he bowled just five overs for 47, and in the following match he didn't bowl at all.

The word back from India was that he'd been struck down by that well-known military affliction, General Soreness, but the suspicion remains that the big fella just didn't fancy bowling.

Whatever, when his skipper most needed him, with Peter Siddle and Mitchell Johnson battling fatigue and Brett Lee on the plane home, Watson the bowler was nowhere to be seen.

...

Given his track record with injury, it's perfectly understandable that Watson is paranoid about breaking down.
Haha, wtf? Just because you don't bowl very well doesn't mean you've got some kind of paranoia about being injured or that you 'don't fancy it', that's ridiculous. The only reason he was even bowling that over that went for 20 was because Brett Lee couldn't finish his spell off. And why criticise him for not bowling when Ponting said he was being rested for that match, just like the plan was for all the bowlers?

/rant
 

Nate

You'll Never Walk Alone
He was very stiff in his action tbf, it did look like he was holding back a lot, similar to when he bowled in the Ashes.
 

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