Gilchrist v Dhoni

[Zinzan]

50 players have scored over 1000 runs batting 4-7 with an average of 35 and over.

3 average 50+ (Bevan, Sarwan, Hussey)
6 more average 45+ (Pietersen, Crowe, Boon, Dhoni, AB de Villiers, Kallis)

Overall in ODI's this middle order position averages 28.81 (probably dragged down by number 7 but ah well)

58 players average over 35 with at least 1000 runs in the top 3. Most interestingly Dhoni has 1019 @ 78.38

3 players average 50+ (Dhoni, Richards, Yousuf)
7 players average 45+ (Turner, Tendulkar, Lara, Abbas, Greenidge, Dippenaar, Kallis)

This position averages 32.35 overall.

Not outs are a pretty huge factor here.
1-3 overall: 1003 NO
4-7 overall: 3702 NO

Top analysis that

 

[bagapath]

Same here, S Anwar & G Smith spring to mind immediately & reasonable cases could be made for M Waugh, N Knight, H Gibbs, S Tendulkar (when he opened), M Hayden, S Ganguly & V Sehwag.

anwar and smith spring to ur mind immediately and a reasonable case could be made for tendulkar? i think tendulkar is as much a shoo in to open an one day team as wasim akram would be to take the new ball.

 

[honestbharani]

I would open with Lara and Tendulkar, tbh, if I have to choose someone apart from Gilly to do the wicket keeping.

 

[Notorious1]

When it comes ot Test match cricket there is no competition. It's Gilchrist hands down.

It can be difficult to pick one of the two in the shorter formats of the game, but my vote would still go for Gilchrist as he was and probably still is a far better keeper.

 

[Sir Alex]

Dhoni is the better batsman in ODIs by a mile, and reversly Gilchrist the better keeper and batsman in test match cricket by a light year and a half.

Dhoni's figures are ridiculous at No.3 and No.4 which have not been buffeted by a spate of notouts. Interestingly the most no. of notouts he has had is at No.6 and No.7 (20) where he averages 39.

 

[G.I.Joe]

Dhoni is the better batsman in ODIs by a mile, and reversly Gilchrist the better keeper and batsman in test match cricket by a light year and a half.

Dhoni's figures are ridiculous at No.3 and No.4 which have not been buffeted by a spate of notouts. Interestingly the most no. of notouts he has had is at No.6 and No.7 (20) where he averages 39.

Haha, yeah. Noted that strange anomaly from the analysis of his batting on cricinfo. Was pretty amused to see some of the posters in the Gilchrist vs Dhoni thread claiming that the not outs lower down the order were buffering his average.

 

[Ikki]

Haha, yeah. Noted that strange anomaly from the analysis of his batting on cricinfo. Was pretty amused to see some of the posters in the Gilchrist vs Dhoni thread claiming that the not outs lower down the order were buffering his average.

Not outs lower down the order count the same as those at the top of the order.

 

[G.I.Joe]

Not outs lower down the order count the same as those at the top of the order.

Sure, if he's facing roughly as many balls lower down the order over the course of the not out as he does higher up the order.

 

[vic_orthdox]

Not outs lower down the order count the same as those at the top of the order.

If someone batting in the top four is not out at the end of 50 overs, you've probably won.

 

[Nate]

If someone batting in the top four is not out at the end of 50 overs, you've probably won.

 

[Uppercut]

If someone batting in the top four is not out at the end of 50 overs, you've probably won.

If MS Dhoni is not out at the end of 50 overs, India have almost always won. Which does make the whole "he has too many not-outs" thing a bit bull.

 

[duffer]

edit: forget it.

 

[dontcloseyoureyes]

You'd obviously take Hartley[/Nafe]

 

[Ikki]

If someone batting in the top four is not out at the end of 50 overs, you've probably won.

Sure, I don't really try to make a distinction if it's someone in the top 4. But Dhoni has played most of his career in the lower positions - outside the top 4. His averages are not great there, even with the many not-outs. However, as aforesaid, those not-outs still count the same so you have to make a distinction between him batting lower, and an opener like Gilchrist otherwise there is no real perspective.

 

[Sanz]

Doesn't that kind of pooh pooh the argument that his average is boosted by Not-Outs ?

 

[Ikki]

Doesn't that kind of pooh pooh the argument that his average is boosted by Not-Outs ?

Depends. It can back that argument. You can argue his case is worse for not averaging higher when batting lower. Which means he took the not-outs but didn't average well even with them.

 

[Sanz]

However, as aforesaid, those not-outs still count the same so you have to make a distinction between him batting lower, and an opener like Gilchrist otherwise there is no real perspective.

Yes and clearly ignore th fact that at the top of the Order Dhoni Outscored Gilly by Miles.

 

[Sanz]

Depends. It can back that argument. You can argue his case is worse for not averaging higher when batting lower. Which means he took the not-outs but didn't average well even with them.

Worse than Whom ?

 

[Ikki]

Yes and clearly ignore th fact that at the top of the Order Dhoni Outscored Gilly by Miles.

By miles...in only 29 ODI innings when in the top 4. Only 2 innings as an opener.

I wouldn't call that much of a sample/argument.

 

[Sanz]

By miles...in only 29 ODI innings when in the top 4. Only 2 innings as an opener.

I wouldn't call that much of a sample/argument.

In that case you should not have stepped into the discussion then. You should have simply said that the sample isn't big enough to compare him, if 29 matches is all you are using for the comparison.

His overall sample is more than enough to suggest that Dhoni has so far outscored Gilly by quite a distance.