Over-simplistic assessment. Warne during the times he was terrible against India (1991/92 and 1997/98-2000/01) was also terrible against all other sides.
Well I thought I’ll check and see how much truth is in that statement. As it turns out Warne seems to go out of form when he plays India...
Richard got the start date of Warne's first injury wrong. Warne did go into the IND 98 fit, he got injured after that series which kept out of cricket for the remainder 98.
Warne bad period as a bowler which inclued his shoulder injury after IND 98 & finger injury after NZ 2000 - began from SCG 99 to Chennai 01, where he averaged 35
Tendy was the only IND batsman who was out of form in 04/05. The rest of the batting where worked out technically by the AUS pace trio. Although it is true IND did play Warne fairly ok - since he was in very good form then.
This was definately a factor - but it is not THE MAIN why his record in IND is poor. It is bad for reasons i have stated above.
Your argument defeats you right there. Murali never had the support bowling in India. Vaas was utter crap on Indian wickets. But he single handedly destroyed Indian batting lineup taking 7/100 or similar sorts in Madras, which Warne never had done. In SL, on less spin friendly wickets Muralis everal times destroyed India, although he had support from Vaas and Mendis
you guys are talking of that series as though warne won it for australia. he was a support act at best; not befitting a great player of his stature at all. in the two tests that australia won, warne took 2-78, 2-115, 2- 47, 2-56. warne wasnt as effective as he would have wanted to be despite sachin not playing for most of that series. this assessment is not a slur on warne though. no leg spinner in the last 20 odd years could succeed against india anyways. it is okay to fail against that batting line up. well, it is not okay. but that is how it panned out and warne will have to live with that blot in his record. finding excuses for him is what makes him look weak. sobers was a flop against new zealand. warne was terrible against india. they are among the greatest cricketers of all time without an iota of doubt. i dont find these sentences contradictory at all.
Warne indeed never destroyed IND at home like Murali's Madras performance. But it was only ONE time. Murali also has an average record in IND averaging 39.50, IND have also played him very well in IND has well. Both these two great spinners where overall where poor in IND & at their "best" with bowling support (Warne 04 with McGrath & co & Murali 05 with Vaas) - they where just decent.
Irrelevant really since Warne at his best never played IND in AUS.
on the contrary, had warne played in the mumbai dust bowl india would not have folded so badly since clarke would not have got to bowl and indians would have played warne's leg spin much more easily. even if warne had "spun his web" around india he could not have done better than clarke's 6 wkt haul anyway. and even if he had matched that once in a life time performance from clarke, india would still have won that test. i consider it a disgrace that test cricket was played on that gorund. i dont think of that, or india's win against SA last year, as important wins at all. these kind of wickets are just desperate acts by india to save face. true cricket fans should shun these games as mere farce. still this would not shut up warne's critics now or ever. he has failed against india everywhere and that wont change.
Warne was not as effective as he wanted because - the pace trio did their job. Since IND have been a force at home PACE is what wins in IND not spin. You seem to forget in the 3 test Warne played in 2004, the only period when the pitch wasn't assisting the pacers in the 1st innings of the Chennai test - Warne took charge taking 6 wickets.
They are not excuses, its hardcore facts of his career - that between ENG 99 to IND 01 that he was in the worst bowling form of his career & suffered two serious injuries - which coincidentally is the same time he played IND alot. Unfortunately over the years some people refuse to accept this.
true. that is why i say indians play leg spin exceptionally well and you cant beat them with it. many pace bowlers have bowled out india. saqlain won the chennai test in 99 with a ten wicket haul. so off spin is also effective against them. but no leg spinner - warne included - could beat india. fit, injured, well-supported or not, warne would always have failed - and he did - against the indian teams of his time.
6 for 125 is not "taking charge". just bowling out the bulk of overs and getting wickets in the process. i saw this day's cricket live. he bowled beautifully. but no indian batsman was troubled by him. leg spin is like dal, roti for them. they can whack it in their sleep.
why resort to this excuse? just say you believe sobers had diarrhea every time he played new zealand, just like warne was always injured when he played india in his 15 year test career (or he was too raw, or he was not well supported or others took all the wickets). might as well insult all the greats if you are pulling down one!
Now, Aussie bowlers average 32.64 in India, which is very respectable. Warne averages 43.1 on this basis. His average is 8.5 runs worse than the composite average. But on other hand SL bowlers average 43.96 in India which is dire. But Murali does well even when the support is crap. He averages 39.58 in India, 4 runs better than his support.
Haaa. That ball was turning all over the place in the test, IND being good againts leg-spin would not have stopped Warne from taking bucketlaods on that raging turner come on. If Warne could have taken 6 wickets on earlier in that series on a flat Chennai deck, Mumbai would have been the perfect fairwell to his tours to IND. Since like Murali in 2005, Warne just need ONE performance in IND where he destroyed them at home & critics could say nothing.
He didn't have to take 6 wickets exactly like Clarke, he just had to spin webs around them over the course of those two innings. Which one really has to believe he would have given his great ability & how helpul the pitch was.
Doesn't matter if IND would have won or not. Just whether hollywood would have finally got his chance to spin webs around IND on a very helpul pitch.
Those kind of pitches pop up in the sub-continent all the time. IND spinners usually take of it & along with Murali over in SRI. So no issue if the opposition for once has bowlers to to give them back & bit of their own medicine.
Only legspin that could beat India would have been Anil Kumble's variety. Fast, flat and straight, and when it hit the dust it misbehaves. Possibly that is teh way to bowl to Indians. Murali when bowling loopy offies over the wicket got hammered. But when he bowled flat, fast off breaks round the wicket, pitching it within stumps later in his career, that's when Indians started to struggle.
sure. but warne being a leggie would not have been able to. he would have been taken to cleaners by the indian batters anyway. if you talk about "if" s and "but"s my guess is as good as yours. if warne played on a totally spin friendly wicket.... if he were fully fit... if he had supporting bowlers who were superb, but did not take all the wickets.... if the indian batters were suffering from food poisoning.....
Please, you're being intellectually dishonest here. IIRC Warne had two career threatening injuries in the period he played all his series against India bar 2 - one at the very start of his career and one at the end. For whatever reason, you can try to play down his injuries - which I am not quite sure how anyone can do - but it is a fact that he played 3 series against India in that period.
Maybe you should reflect a bit more. Aussie and I keep bringing facts, you keep calling them excuses. So who is being snide here? You say you don't ignore facts, but you go and do it blatantly. And there you go pandering out "I am a huge Warne fan...but the Indians were gods".
dont say this again ikki. it is very insulting. i have written before clearly that indians were never bothered by any leg spinner for the past two decades and more. and that pace bowlers and off spinners have got the better of them both in india and abroad. warne failed against them because his craft means nothing to them. you never responded to those posts because you could not argue against that logic. now u r coming back to question my integrity????
u cant give excuses for 12 years. to anybody. definitely not for warne. he failed against india. period.
when the **** did i call indians gods? you have to answer this question. i cant let you accuse me of things i didnt claim and walk away
You can't really deduce that with great certainty at all. He may have been hit for less runs, and gotten even less wickets respectively, and that may have even increased his average.
I guess saying "they slaughter spinners at will" and that they could play him "in their sleep" was you being modest about their talents. You call it a big IF to suggest Warne would have bettered his record in the test he missed at Mumbai; even though Clarke and Hauritz took you guys to the cleaners on the same pitch.