**Official** New Zealand v Pakistan in UAE

[straw man]

My Squad assuming Ryder, Elliott and Tuffey are all out with injury

Wicket Keepers

Brendon McCullum
Peter McGlashan

Batsmen

Martin Guptill
Ross Taylor
Bradley Watling
Scott Styris
Shannon Stewart
Neil Broom

Bowlers

Shane Bond
Ian Butler
Kyle Mills
Brent Arnel

All Rounders

Daniel Vettori
Nathan McCullum
James Franklin

What happened to Redmond Howsie? Did you fall off the 'bring back Redmond' train?

If nothing else, Stewart would seem better suited to the number 6 spot than Broom.

Also, would probably go for O'Brien over Arnel - O'Brien hasn't been brilliant but also hasn't been the worst in one-dayers (though was pretty rubbish in T20). He'll sit on the bench anyway.

 

[Howsie]

He's not that bad with pace as such, just wasn't much chop in general in tests. More of a get a start and get out problem.

Much like Jamie How, his opening partner at the time.

Tbh I wasn't really thinking of his test performances when I posted that. Whenever Redmond's come up against extra pace in 20/20 and one day cricket he just hasn't been able to score that freely, 3-4 innings is probably a bit harsh to judge him on though.

 

[straw man]

IF conditions swing.

If they don't, he's pretty bad.

Games can be won and lost on fifth bowling options. After Mills, Bond and Vettori we have to see whether Butler has a good day and whether Jesse will do well as an economical part timer.

There's also the possibility of Oram finding his form with the bat again, and if he does its a no contest.

Since it's in the UAE I'm going to assume it will be dry and dusty. Could be wrong - Australia played there against Pakistan a while ago but cbf looking up what the conditions were like. I seem to remember Pakistan spinners did well though.

So perhaps we'll play two spinners from the start. Butler or Oram would then probably miss out and sit on the bench.

Also if conditions are like that then Oram's bowling >> Franklin's bowling. Franklin is still an invaluable member of the bench though.

 

[Howsie]

What happened to Redmond Howsie? Did you fall off the 'bring back Redmond' train?

If nothing else, Stewart would seem better suited to the number 6 spot than Broom.

Also, would probably go for O'Brien over Arnel - O'Brien hasn't been brilliant but also hasn't been the worst in one-dayers (though was pretty rubbish in T20). He'll sit in the bench anyway.

Still on it, just think Watling deserves a chance. Tbh I'd probably go with Redmond for this tour just so Watling doesn't have to make his debut on the other side of the world against a decent team.

 

[S.P. Fleming]

Some of you might cringe at the idea, but I wouldnt mind Danny Flynn getting another run in the ODI side. The problem was that we played him at six which never gave him the time to build the innings that he needed. With McCullum and Guptill up top fot this series we can afford a strokemaker which is why Flynn should be at 3. Im also a massive How fan but I wont get into that.

considering Ryder, Elliott and Tuffey are all out

McCullum
Guptill
Flynn
Taylor
Stewart/ Redmond/ STYRIS
Vettori (he said hes gonna bat 6 in ODI's now)
Oram/McGlashan
Franklin
Mills
Butler
Bond

Full strength

McCullum
Ryder
Guptill top 5 cemented
Taylor
Elliott

Oram
Franklin
Butler not sure
McGlashan
Tuffey

Vettori
Mills cemented
Bond

 

[straw man]

Some of you might cringe at the idea, but I wouldnt mind Danny Flynn getting another run in the ODI side. The problem was that we played him at six which never gave him the time to build the innings that he needed. With McCullum and Guptill up top fot this series we can afford a strokemaker which is why Flynn should be at 3.

Had this thought too.

Pros:
- As you say he is the right sort of player to fit in between two attacking openers and Taylor at 4.
- Is also left-handed

Cons:
- Hasn't exactly excelled in our recent test matches and is probably not far away from being dropped.
- In ODIs he would still have to score at a relatively decent clip (say SR of 60-70) and to do that he wouldn't be able to purely use the approach that has given him *some* success in tests. Who knows if he is actually capable of this (turning over the strike) without becoming as vulnerable as the others in the top order.

Not sure tbh. Wouldn't be a annoyed if he was selected though.

 

[Zinzan]

I read that he was out for 2-3 weeks? Meaning Elliott may be back.
Vettori will have recoved.
So should Ryder.
Oram has given it up.

I heard Ryder was a good 8-10 weeks away (that news being about 2 weeks old now)

 

[Zinzan]

First XI (everyone fit):

McCullum
Ryder
Guptill
Taylor
Elliott
Oram
McGlashan
Vettori
Mills
Butler
Bond

Not a bad side Flem, only changes I'd make is having McCullum keeping, so Styris can bat at 5 between Taylor & Elliott & I'd still have Tuffey ahead of Butler, if all fit. Tuffey is a craftier operator than Butler imho. Either way, am mainly in agreement

 

[Prince EWS]

It's okay, but I dunno tbh. How many seasons has he been in hot form? He's been bumped around the order a lot which I doubt has helped. Wouldn't throw a hissyfit if he was included but wouldn't be surprised if he flopped. More info needed on him I think, which hopefuly the selectors have (we all know what they're like).

Haha, sums up my thoughts on him completely. Would probably rather see Fulton there tbh.

 

[S.P. Fleming]

From what I heard, Ryder is no chance for the ODI series and is targetting the "away" tests in New Zealand in late november.

 

[Zinzan]

From what I heard, Ryder is no chance for the ODI series and is targetting the "away" tests in New Zealand in late november.

Cheers, thought as much

 

[Howsie]

Fulton over Stewart as a "finisher"?

Since 05/06 Stewart has averaged:

05/06 46
06/07 31
07/08 33
08/09 39

So it's not like he's only had one decent season, he's performed pretty decently for four years now and I really think he could make the step up for us.

 

[Flem274*]

Since it's in the UAE I'm going to assume it will be dry and dusty. Could be wrong - Australia played there against Pakistan a while ago but cbf looking up what the conditions were like. I seem to remember Pakistan spinners did well though.

So perhaps we'll play two spinners from the start. Butler or Oram would then probably miss out and sit on the bench.

Also if conditions are like that then Oram's bowling >> Franklin's bowling. Franklin is still an invaluable member of the bench though.

After reading this, Oram should play if fit imo.

Still on it, just think Watling deserves a chance. Tbh I'd probably go with Redmond for this tour just so Watling doesn't have to make his debut on the other side of the world against a decent team.

Think Watling would be okay tbh. NZ players have been debuted in harsher situations (no disrespect to Pakistan, they're a good side, but they're not the 2000 Australian team for example) and gone on to good careers.

Had this thought too.

Pros:
- As you say he is the right sort of player to fit in between two attacking openers and Taylor at 4.
- Is also left-handed

Cons:
- Hasn't exactly excelled in our recent test matches and is probably not far away from being dropped.
- In ODIs he would still have to score at a relatively decent clip (say SR of 60-70) and to do that he wouldn't be able to purely use the approach that has given him *some* success in tests. Who knows if he is actually capable of this (turning over the strike) without becoming as vulnerable as the others in the top order.

Not sure tbh. Wouldn't be a annoyed if he was selected though.

Flynn in List A was a dasher. He's got the reputation for blocking after his test performances but he can hit and get quick singles too. His ODI performances were rank awful but number three would be where I'd play him if I picked him. Personally I wouldn't pick him for the ODI side but I can see why the idea would be put forward.

Not a bad side Flem, only changes I'd make is having McCullum keeping, so Styris can bat at 5 between Taylor & Elliott & I'd still have Tuffey ahead of Butler, if all fit. Tuffey is a craftier operator than Butler imho. Either way, am mainly in agreement

McCullum would keep. Probably shouldn't have called that side full strength, was meaning if injury luck went our way then the best side for Pakistan would be such. I assumed Tuffey was definitely out for the tour otherwise Butler would make way for him.

Haha, sums up my thoughts on him completely. Would probably rather see Fulton there tbh.

I like Fulton but he's gone odd. The Fulton we've seen sporadically at internationally level isn't the 2005-2007 model.

 

[Hurricane]

I think Straw man already mentioned as much but Elliot is out according to Stuff
"Elliott holds no hope of playing in the one-day series against Pakistan in Abu Dhabi early next month, instead aiming for a return in time for the start of the domestic season in mid-November."

1) I don't want young Kane selected. Didn't do good enough for the A team needs more time etc.
2) Flynn was awful when he played ODIs for us. His average was 15 in 13 innings. His shot selection looked ok as did his temperament - but his execution wasn't there - I can remember him being caught at mid on or mid off in failed attempts to hit over the top on multiple occasions.
3) Want Styris in for Elliott.

 

[Flem274*]

Fulton over Stewart as a "finisher"?

Since 05/06 Stewart has averaged:

05/06 46
06/07 31
07/08 33
08/09 39

So it's not like he's only had one decent season, he's performed pretty decently for four years now and I really think he could make the step up for us.

The two middle seasons aren't special tbf. Do you know where he was batting? I know in at least the past two seasons he's been in the middle order.

I suspect half the reason Fulton went dog on us is he was put at number six in ODIs, so I agree there.

The best finisher in the country is Brendon McCullum. Unfortunately he is also the most destructive opener (only Ryder rivals him with Guptill a step below) in the country.

Judging by the injury list this series, I'd like to see Broom batted higher up the order. I still believe he's in the wrong format, but he's been unfairly thought of as a hitter. I'd like to see him get his last chance in a position where he can actualy do something.

With Oram gone from tests if we decide to use Ryder as the allrounder I can see Broom coming into the side which I'm not against. He's much better at the long format so hopefuly he'd have some success.

 

[Howsie]

In 05/06 Stewart batted at 1,3,5,6. He opened in four games, batted at three once and played at five four times and six once.

In 06/07 he batted at 3,4 two times each and opened four times

07/08 he opened for the first half of the season and then he moved down to four for the rest of the comp.

And then last year he batted in the middle order all season from memory.

 

[Flem274*]

Can't be easy when you're treated like an ipod.

I like that he's versatile, but the selectors will probably want him to back last year up in the same position (which could be interesting if he continues to get shuffled around) and play some A games.

 

[Hurricane]

I suspect half the reason Fulton went dog on us is he was put at number six in ODIs, so I agree there.

I used to like Fulton. But then there was that tour to Aussie where they gave him another chance and he didn't really come through. He also played in the tests there and I remember him getting clean bowled by a straight delivery from Johnson (they always look easy on TV )

Fulton always used to take a long time to get off the mark - and then once he did his was away and you could watch him tick it over.

 

[Flem274*]

Fulton hasn't played a test in Australia has he?

That second chance is what I'm talking about (along with several home series post WC). He was not the 2005-2007 Fulton.

 

[DIRK-NANNES]

Fulton hasn't played a test in Australia has he?

That second chance is what I'm talking about (along with several home series post WC). He was not the 2005-2007 Fulton.

Err, he played there in the last test series we had vs Oz

I like that he's versatile, but the selectors will probably want him to back last year up in the same position (which could be interesting if he continues to get shuffled around) and play some A games.

1st unofficial ODI: New Zealand A v England Lions at Palmerston North, Mar 14, 2009 | Cricket Scorecard | Cricinfo.com
Only T20 Match: New Zealand A v England Lions at New Plymouth, Mar 19, 2009 | Cricket Scorecard | Cricinfo.com