*Official* Group B Discussion - South Africa, Sri Lanka, New Zealand, England

[Athlai]

Its Moles strategy TBH and I can see how it may work. Basically its play (fastish) Test cricket and then play T20. Should be able to score 8 an over or more if you have wickets in hand.

Reckon 250 was par on that pitch.

 

[Howsie]

Its Moles strategy TBH and I can see how it may work. Basically its play (fastish) Test cricket and then play T20. Should be able to score 8 an over or more if you have wickets in hand.

Reckon 250 was par on that pitch.

It's a poor strategy tbh. When you have player's like McCullum, Ryder and Guptill up the top of the order why not attack in the first 15?

I would rather see McCullum and Ryder play their shot's and if they get out early, oh well we still have the likes of Guptill and Taylor to come in and score at 4-5 runs an over.

 

[Hurricane]

I am a fan of having McCullum score quickly - I will go so far as to say that a quick 20 at the start of the inning is better than a slow and methodical 30 as it establishes momentum for the whole inning.
Ideally he will go on and score a quick 40 and not a quick 20.

The only time a slow approach is better is if you don't think you have the batsman after you who will last out 50 overs. And that you personally need to occupy the crease just to make it to 50 overs. In New Zealands case with Broom out of form and Hopkins playing this is obviously a present concern for the team. But in general when we have our full complement of players I think McCullum should trust his team mates and play his shots.

 

[Athlai]

Dunno until we have secured our middle order we may end up with 150 ao all too often.

 

[FBU]

Think I've worked out the problem here - was clearly dropping Onions (played 3 ODI, won all 3) for Sidebottom (lost last 9 times he's played against major nations)

2009
Won series in WI - no Sidebottom
Won series in Eng v WI - no Sidebottom
Played 6 ODIs v Aus with Sidebottom - Lost all
Dropped Sidebottom for last match - Won
Played SL and SA no Sidebottom - Won
Sidebottom back for NZ match - Lost

So will Sidebottom play in the next match?

 

[Flem274*]

With the top four as it is, they should just do what they do best-dominate. If the crap hits the fan, Taylor, Elliott, Franklin, Vettori and our imaginary number six can ressurect the innings.

We have the bowling (full strength) to cover our batting imo, as long as the total isn't too pathetic.

 

[Athlai]

Don't forget Mills and Butler TBH. Yeah actually if we had a stronger number 6 I reckon I'd be more keen for the slog from the word go strategy.

Can't really think of a way to get Pig in there though. Top 3 looks relatively secure, 4 and 5 are fine. Pig isn't an ideal 6, he'd be better at 3-5 and they are currently our strongest batsman.

Also am I the only one who thinks with Ryder's injury Guptill may be able to establish himself as our long term opener. Would prefer Ryder at 3 or lower personally. Think that his problem with the moving ball (though it isn't a MAJOR problem, just means he gets out after starts) would decrease and he could play longer innings.

 

[straw man]

Awesome that we won, even if it seems like it was a fairly underwhelming match. Dismayed to read this in the herald:

However, the result in Johannesburg today could come at a cost, with man-of-the-match Grant Elliott left nursing a hand injury.

South African-born Elliott, playing on his former home ground of the Wanderers, was hit on the right thumb while batting as New Zealand chased a target of 147 on a pitch with an uneven bounce.

Moles said Elliott's thumb was swollen, but it was too early to determine whether the player was in doubt for the semifinal on Sunday (NZT).

Don't know what to say. DoG is right - we are cursed when playing in South Africa.

 

[Athlai]

Na **** it we'll win the trophy with the last 3 remaining McCullum -Vettori - hot physio girl

CT is as good as ours.

England, Pakistan and Australia are all dire and India are as good as gone (while also being dire).

NZ FTW!

 

[Hurricane]

Awesome that we won, even if it seems like it was a fairly underwhelming match. Dismayed to read this in the herald:



Don't know what to say. DoG is right - we are cursed when playing in South Africa.

This sucks.

They can't possibly fly anyone else in as cover can they. So means we will go with Hopkins as #6 in the batting order if Elliot can't play.

McCullum
Redmond
Guptil
Taylor
Broom
Hopkins

What we should do is negotiate with the other team before the game starts for how many runs Broom and Hopkins wickets are worth. And then make a gentlemans agreement that they will be allowed to score that many and then get out. If we negotiate well and show the other team their List A averages we could get more value out of them that way.
Sarcasm aside - has Hopkins had enough chances now or should Diamanti be given a run for his country.

Heres hoping Elliot can represent!

 

[James]

I guess the question will come - are 15-man squads large enough for major tournaments? Do the ICC need to allow 18-19 man squads to cover injuries?

 

[thierry henry]

No they played very well in that match. If we were ten runs too short it was because of Broom-Cumming-Fulton's failures.

It was a total we should well have defended.

You are out of your mind if you believe that

 

[Polo23]

Can't believe Athlai is defending the "Baz to build an innings" plan.

Firstly he doesn't have the defensive technique to play that kind of innings, secondly he obviously doesn't have the mindset to play that kind of innings and thirdly he was the world's BEST ODI batsman in the 18 months he was teeing off at everything.

I don't see how you can back a strategy that has him score a slow 30-40 runs, puts pressure on the middle order and whoever he is batting with and doesn't make use of the powerplays when he was playing the best cricket of his life as a pinch hitter.

 

[Raghav]

Bracken Out of the competition
Yuvraj out of the competition
Gibbs injured
Younis injured

I get a feeling that.......

Everything is being set for NZ winning this tournament

Hopes Still Alive

NZ did it in Oct 2000 and they will do it again in Oct 2009

 

[Raghav]

McCullum would not have got those many runs, had Strauss has asked the wicket keeper to stand up to the stumps

McCullum is ****ting batter if the WK stands up to stumps. Dhoni, Sangakkara employs this strategy against McCullum very early in the innings..

 

[Athlai]

Can't believe Athlai is defending the "Baz to build an innings" plan.

Firstly he doesn't have the defensive technique to play that kind of innings, secondly he obviously doesn't have the mindset to play that kind of innings and thirdly he was the world's BEST ODI batsman in the 18 months he was teeing off at everything.

I don't see how you can back a strategy that has him score a slow 30-40 runs, puts pressure on the middle order and whoever he is batting with and doesn't make use of the powerplays when he was playing the best cricket of his life as a pinch hitter.

I'm defending McCullum more than the plan. People are blaming him for doing it, when he is doing it for the team. And he wasn't the worlds best ODI batsman.

We are however wasting his pinch hitting abilities, but he is only doing as he is told. Fair play to him for playing a difficult role as the younger players develop.

 

[thierry henry]

btw (and this is entirely unrelated to his batting atm), no comments on McCullum still being a bit of a knob? More dodgy goings-on with the Collingwood "dismissal", what is the guy's deal?

 

[Athlai]

You are out of your mind if you believe that

If we had our current attack we should have defended the total. With an ODI attack led by the young Southee and the poor at ODI cricket O'Brien we couldn't defend anything under 300.

 

[JimmyGS]

btw (and this is entirely unrelated to his batting atm), no comments on McCullum still being a bit of a knob? More dodgy goings-on with the Collingwood "dismissal", what is the guy's deal?

This isn't my opinion as I've never met the guy. But the subject has come up a lot while talking to people who have worked with him. He's generally regarded as an arrogant, self-obsessed dickhead. When I say generally, I mean that not one person has had a contrasting opinion.

 

[99*]

btw (and this is entirely unrelated to his batting atm), no comments on McCullum still being a bit of a knob? More dodgy goings-on with the Collingwood "dismissal", what is the guy's deal?

TBF it looked like he threw it before Harper called over.