*Official* Group B Discussion - South Africa, Sri Lanka, New Zealand, England

[straw man]

jkng

 

[Howsie]

1.Guptill
2.Watling
3.Ryder
4.Taylor
5.Elliott
6.Stewart
7.McCullum

?

I really want to fit Franklin in there though. I'd probably give him a shot first over Stewart and if Stewart continues on with last year's form I'd bring him in for whoever isn't performing.

 

[Athlai]

McCullum could bat 6 fine.

 

[Furball]

Christ, McCullum's been dire for a while now.

 

[Raghav]

Christ, McCullum's been dire for a while now.

McCullum is in ugly form and I do not want him to see opening innings again.

I'd love to see Brendon McCullum drop down to number six or seven and Guptill come up and join Jesse Ryder. I think those guys are in reasonable form and we know that McCullum isn't

With McCullum coming down the order, if he's got a target in his sight it will help his focus. He struggles to set up innings and he has done for a while now

I'd also bring (Neil) Broom, who has shown some form in the warm-up games, up to four or five to join (Grant) Elliott, and (Ross) Taylor would go into number three, where I think he could do some real damage in the first few overs.

 

[Athlai]

McCullum is certainly doing this because he has been asked to.

 

[DIRK-NANNES]

Shannon Stewart would be a very good 6-7 for New Zealand. He really killed it last season, I remember him scoring a 50 odd ball 80 not out against the Lions.

He's probably next in line and would be a good shout for 6, his 376 runs @ 41.77 was scored at almost a run a ball (SR 99.20).

Here are those A games vs the Lions for those interested.
1st unofficial ODI: New Zealand A v England Lions at Palmerston North, Mar 14, 2009 | Cricket Scorecard | Cricinfo.com
Only T20 Match: New Zealand A v England Lions at New Plymouth, Mar 19, 2009 | Cricket Scorecard | Cricinfo.com

 

[Zinzan]

Franklin vs. Kent
5/30
and currently 25* (31) in a 4 day match

vs Kent being the operative point - Not an International

 

[Hurricane]

McCullum is certainly doing this because he has been asked to.

Batting slowly because he has been asked to?

If this is true then I am furious with Moles.

Go on, just say it... you want to see saviour of NZ cricket Kane Williamson in there

I think as desperate as we are - based on Kane's average showing for the A side recently I don't think he is ready for this level yet and it will damage his confidence to play too soon.

As for Franklin if we pick him for 20/20s and give him the odd run in an ODI I am ok with that. But I don't want to see him in a test match. His technique and footwork were poor in the India series. I think he is scoring his runs based on having a good temperament rather than a good technique - I don't think he can cut it at test match level as a top 7 batsman. If he gets picked for his bowling that is another matter.

Regarding Diamanti not getting picked last night. I think it must have been a situation of Daniel not rating Diamanti's batting ability. Diamanti was obviously picked by the selectors but Dan is sending a signal that he wouldn't have picked Diamanti for this tour had he been in charge. Perhaps Dan will bring back Styris who knows for future series.

 

[Athlai]

Batting slowly because he has been asked to?

If this is true then I am furious with Moles.

I do believe that Moles said his strategy was for his guys to be something like 170/1-2 at the 35/40th over and launch. McCullum was told to build an innings.

 

[Raghav]

I do believe that Moles said his strategy was for his guys to be something like 170/1-2 at the 35/40th over and launch. McCullum was told to build an innings.

Unfortunately, he is not the right guy to do that...

He is so ****ting in the middle overs if he gets through the first 10-15 overs

 

[Prince EWS]

I do believe that Moles said his strategy was for his guys to be something like 170/1-2 at the 35/40th over and launch. McCullum was told to build an innings.

Unlike some, I do think there's some merit in that strategy if you have the right batsmen to do it and a good bowling attack, but it's completely senseless to come up with that gameplan and then open the batting with McCullum and Ryder.

 

[straw man]

Regarding Diamanti not getting picked last night. I think it must have been a situation of Daniel not rating Diamanti's batting ability. Diamanti was obviously picked by the selectors but Dan is sending a signal that he wouldn't have picked Diamanti for this tour had he been in charge. Perhaps Dan will bring back Styris who knows for future series.

I too get the impression something along these lines is happening. The captain and coach don't get the squad they want and so when they're on tour they won't play certain guys, or if they are absolutely forced to by injury then they don't give that guy any responsibility. Result: No-one wins and the team is weakened.

Can't remember if Vettori and Moles were on the selection panel when this CT squad was picked - anyone else?

 

[Hurricane]

I do believe that Moles said his strategy was for his guys to be something like 170/1-2 at the 35/40th over and launch. McCullum was told to build an innings.

I don't think our batting line up or batting order matches this strategy.

I have always had a bad feeling about Moles. And now he is a selector.

From Wikipedia
After retiring as a player, he started his coaching career at Griqualand West, staying there for five years. In 2003 he was appointed as the national coach of Kenya, but he had a turbulent time due to infighting between the Kenyan Cricket Board and players which led him to quit the job at the end of 2004. He took over as the coach of Scotland in January 2005 but quit the job after less than a year as a result of disagreements with some of the senior players. He was appointed coach of Northern Districts in New Zealand domestic cricket for the 2006-07 season, and in his first season helped guide the team to the State Championship. He is currently contracted as coach of Northern Districts until the end of the 2008-09 season.
On November 25, 2008 New Zealand Cricket announced that Andy Moles had been appointed to succeed John Bracewell as the New Zealand Coach.

 

[Athlai]

Yeah fast starts from Ryder and McCullum are much better than slow building for a team who can't even do that in Tests

 

[Hurricane]

Can't remember if Vettori and Moles were on the selection panel when this CT squad was picked - anyone else?

I looked it up and on August 23rd it was announced that Dan was going to be a selector - and on the same day Aug 23 they announced the final CT trophy with the addition of Diamanti and Tuffey. So it is unclear if he got say over those decisions.
I am sure they would have run it past him prior to announcing it but whether he had the chance for real input is unknown.

Moles seemed to support the decision though at the time
"“Brendon is a strong lower order striker and has good control as a medium pace bowler – he will provide valuable back-up for the squad,” said Moles."

 

[Uppercut]

Unlike some, I do think there's some merit in that strategy if you have the right batsmen to do it and a good bowling attack, but it's completely senseless to come up with that gameplan and then open the batting with McCullum and Ryder.

It's a bit of an antiquated plan for me, still present only because the people coaching the game now are the people who were playing the game when that was how ODI cricket was played. The continued use of it by Scotland when teams like UAE, Afghanistan and Canada were successfully attacking early on was the single biggest contributor to their failure to qualify for the 2011 World Cup, almost losing ODI status completely in the process.

In any case, this was anything but the time for New Zealand to be playing with it. Their bottom order of Hopkins (where's McGlashan btw?), Mills, Vettori, Tuffey, Bond was so horrendously ill-suited to late hitting it was embarrassing, while anyone who's watched South Africa once in the past six months will tell you Steyn and Parnell's death bowling has been unplayable. Hitters like McCullum and Ryder were forced to try to build an innings, Taylor was forced to come in against spin and fail miserably to rotate the strike, Elliot- the best player in the side at taking ones and twos during the middle overs- was forced to hit out so Taylor could try to bat through, and the pressure Taylor's turgid strike rate put on a bunch of bowlers and defensive batsmen to hit ten per over off Dale Steyn from the moment they arrived at the crease inevitably caused a swift collapse.

The whole innings was a horrendous tactical balls-up for mine.

 

[DIRK-NANNES]

Woooo, thank you Jesus, Sir James of Franklin is being shipped in

Franklin called up to replace Oram | Cricket News | ICC Champions Trophy, 2009 | Cricinfo.com

EDIT: Heh, he's been "retired hurt" in that Gloucs vs Kent game.

 

[Raghav]

Franklin, who will fly to South Africa tonight, retires on 104 not out in Gloucestershire’s overnight 439 for five, in reply to Kent’s 264 all out in which he took 5-30.

 

[DIRK-NANNES]

Franklin, who will fly to South Africa tonight, retires on 104 not out in Gloucestershire’s overnight 439 for five, in reply to Kent’s 264 all out in which he took 5-30.

You sound like a Cricinfo bulletin