• Welcome to the Cricket Web forums, one of the biggest forums in the world dedicated to cricket.

    You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join the Cricket Web community today!

    If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.

*Official* England in South Africa

SeamUp

International Coach
From BBC

Steve Harmison says he only wants to tour South Africa with England if he is assured of a "full part" in the side.

The Durham fast bowler was overlooked for a central contract last week and has been considering retiring from international cricket.

"I am only going to retire if England don't want me any more," Harmison told BBC Radio 5 live's Sportsweek. "I don't want to play as a bit-part player."

Harmison played the last two Ashes Tests as England beat Australia 2-1.

He has played no part in the seven-match one-day series and was not named in the squad for the Champions Trophy.

"When the one-day series is out of the way I'll sit down and speak with the selectors," said Harmison, who helped Durham win its second straight County Championship title last week.

"I fully understand this central contract issue. The simple fact is I've not done enough. I understand why I wasn't given a central contract because I hadn't done my job for England this year.

"But if they want me to go to South Africa I'll gladly go and be a full part of it."

England play two Twenty20 internationals and five one-dayers in South Africa in November before the four-Test series begins.

England coach Andy Flower has said Harmison remains a part of his plans.

Andrew Flintoff's retirement from Test cricket has left the England attack short of tall, experienced pace bowlers.

"It would be unfair of me to walk away now," said Harmison. "Andrew Flintoff's walked away so you're taking probably about 135 Test matches out of the equation in a short space of time."

"For that experience it wouldn't be fair for me just to walk away. But I want to be part of a side playing rather than just carrying out the drinks as I have been for the last couple of winters.

"If they want me to go I'll gladly go. If they don't want me to go then I'll retire."

Harmison made his Test debut for England against India at Trent Bridge in 2002 and has since taken 226 wickets in 63 Test matches.

He has only featured in six Tests in England's last four away series over the past two winters.

"It's not fair on myself, not fair on the selectors and not fair on everybody else in England to keep coming back to somebody who they pick for one or two Test matches a year," he added. "I think they can move on from that." [/I]
 

SeamUp

International Coach
I know he is a family man but it is also a bit arrogant and almost holding down an ultimatum to the selectors.

Now if Harmy doesn't go and to me Sid at 32 is quite an average little seamer, it means only 4 seamers will definitely make it in Broad, Anderson, Onions and Bresnan.

Who is next in line?

1. Liam Plunkett
2. Saj Mahmood
3. Mark Davies
4. Chris Woakes
 

grecian

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
I would rather have Finn then any of those, but can't say those names fill me with joy, so Sidebottom it would be for me, I'm afraid.
 

SeamUp

International Coach
I saw a bit of Finn in the u19WC but he hasn't progressed at all and that is worrying.

A good comparison is him and Woakes. Woakes was reserve in the u19 WC but Woakes a year younger last season averaged 20 with the ball in the 2nd division while Finn this season (a year older) is averaging 30 with the ball in the 2nd division.

Finn doesn't have the radar as well as he regularly goes for over 4 to the over.

But I agree that he has the raw materials with bounce and pace.
 
Last edited:

grecian

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
I saw a bit of Finn in the u19WC but he hasn't progressed at all and that is worrying.

A good comparison is him and Woakes. Woakes was reserve in the u19 WC but Woakes a year younger last season averaged 20 with the ball in the 2nd division while Finn this season (a year older) is averaging 30 with the ball in the 2nd division.

Finn doesn't have the radar as well as he regularly goes for over 4 to the over.

But I agree that he has the raw materials with bounce and pace.
Yes, But Woakes has been poor this season. Umm, as I said before I think Sidebottom or (I know never going to happen) Hoggard are better choices. If you're going to go left-field I would rather Finn (for his natural attributes) then these others.
 

Woodster

International Captain
My 4 certainties for the SA tour would be Sidebottom, Onions, Broad and Anderson. Now the fifth spot would depend on a number of factors, I would go Harmison personally, that would depend on his attitude and determination to go on the tour, and to be as fit as he can be before we play a warm-up game. So frequently he's striving for fitness well into the series and we cannot afford that to happen in SA.

Should the management not get the vibe that he is keen to adhere to the kind of fitness regime he seemingly needs when he's not played competitive cricket for a while, then it gets interesting. At the moment I don't think I have any definitive candidate in mind, but I am continuing to mull it over as to who I would like to see named in the squad (should Harmy not be right).

Was hoping for a big season from Mahmood, and while he has bowled very well at times, he has consistently been at his best, although 35 wickets at 28.37 isn't a disgrace.

I was under the impression Woakes has bowled much better than his stats suggest, and this fifth spt for the bowlers may be carrying the drinks more than anything, so the experience will stand him in good stead.
 

SeamUp

International Coach
They most probably will go for Sidebottom but I think he is way past his sell by date and getting selected still for destroying New Zealand.

I think he got 1 wicket in his last 3 tests and was an absolute shocker in the recent ODI series.

But I fully agree with you on Finn, Grecian. He has more potential to play in Asia and other places outside England than the others.
 

superkingdave

Hall of Fame Member
For Finn to average 30 playing at Lords is a decent return for a young bowler tbh. Not exaclty a seamers paradise is it?
 

Uppercut

Request Your Custom Title Now!
That's why I'd have reservations about including Davies along with Sid & Jimmy A (don't think Onions is quite so swing reliant myself). If the ball refuses to swing I think Davies would be absolute fodder.

Plus obviously we need another injury prone bowler in the squad about as much as a bout of swine flu.
Davies isn't as slow as you seem to think. Stuart Clark pace.

More to the point, i think it's hard to argue with results. If he was fodder when the ball doesn't swing you'd expect him to average a fair bit more than 21. Hell, if there was any half-decent reason at all why his bowling isn't good enough at test level, you'd expect him to average more than 21 at county level. That's a bloody crazy record. And when you spend your entire career bowling on the comeback trail and end up with a record like that, I don't think match fitness should be an issue.

It would be travesty if he never turned out for England.
 

BoyBrumby

Englishman
Davies isn't as slow as you seem to think. Stuart Clark pace.

More to the point, i think it's hard to argue with results. If he was fodder when the ball doesn't swing you'd expect him to average a fair bit more than 21. Hell, if there was any half-decent reason at all why his bowling isn't good enough at test level, you'd expect him to average more than 21 at county level. That's a bloody crazy record. And when you spend your entire career bowling on the comeback trail and end up with a record like that, I don't think match fitness should be an issue.

It would be travesty if he never turned out for England.
Only seem him bowl once, tbf. Operated exclusively around 78-81mph and got absolutely carted. Only bowled 4 overs of his allotment and went for about 40-odd. Davies took a real liking to him. Suspect Pro40 probably not his natural milieu, but Sky rarely carry FC games.

Would say Clark's faster on the gun and off the pitch myself and definitely gets more carry. Davies is Jon Lewis with better hair & worse fitness, essentially.
 

Uppercut

Request Your Custom Title Now!
Doesn't explain the averaging 21 tbh. 21! I don't think people are grasping just how good that is. Find me a current international fast bowler with a better FC record than that. There must be something seriously good about this guy.

And if there's not and it's all a big bizarre fluke, you can't fault the selectors for giving him a try. Has been bloody good for the Lions too, incidentally.
 

Scaly piscine

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Next person mentioning Saj "worse than Durham's reserve bowlers" Mahmood is getting hunted down.

As far as I'm concerned England should be looking at 3-4 Durham bowlers and picking most of them. They are better options than the other names being thrown about.
 

FBU

International Debutant
First class bowling this season

Onions 69 at 19.95 econ 3.21 /sr 37.2
Plunkett 52 at 22.40 econ 3.29 s/r 40.8
Anderson 39 at 22.71 econ 3.04 s/r 44.6
Harmison 62 at 23.48 econ 2.96 s/r 47.5
Sidebottom 31 at 24.51 econ 2.91 s/r 50.3

Lewis 51 at 20.60 econ 2.67 s/r 46.2 (2nd Div)
Kirby 62 at 20.85 econ 2.88 s/r 43.4 (2nd Div)
Lucas 52 at 23.15 econ 3.11 s/r 44.5 (2nd Div)

Broad 36 at 26.08 econ 3.30 s/r 47.3

Finn 53 at 30.64 econ 3.88 s/r 47.3 (2nd Div)
Woakes 46 at 32.52 econ 3.22 s/r 60.5
Mahmood 38 at 33.39 econ 3.61 s/r 55.5
Harris 39 at 34.35 econ 3.37 sr/ 61.1 (2nd Div)
Bresnan 32 at 35.50 econ 2.63 s/r 83.1
 

Top