Official Rugby Thread

[Somerset]

Excellent and long-overdue news. That Los Pumas have been as competitive as they have without an annual top-level test comp is little short of miraculous and a testament to the Top 14 in France where a lot of them play their club rugby.

Few details to be sorted (that most of the best Argentine players ply their trade in the NH so will be in their close-season not the least), but good news for world union.

Its only taken how long? Absolutely long overdue, and if it all goes ahead thats excellent news for Argentine rugby. Will be a highlight for the Tri Nations sides playing in Argentina each year too I'd imagine.

True enough, but I've personally never been convinced by McAlister's game-management. Talented boy, extravagently so, but not convinced his decision making is much cop. It was his refusal to take the drop goal when it was on against France in the 2007 quarter when Carter was off, until things were desperate and time was running out, that arguably cost you the test. Reckon a more prosaic player like Wilkinson or Mehrtens would've come away with the points when on.

Also think Hayman & Jack, as tight five players, are more likely to be bankers.

No guarantees tho, obv.

TBH I rated McAlister highly in terms of his skill but his decision making has always been an issue. That 50 metre dropkick attempt with a few minutes to go against France in Cardiff was just bizarre. I agree that Hayman and Jack are more likely to add more impact than Luke but was mainly referring to how laboured McAlister seems to have been since returning, as if playing European rugby has somewhat changed his game for the worse at a higher level - not having watched him play in the UK I can't really comment too much on his performance in your competitions.

 

[ripper868]

TBH I rated McAlister highly in terms of his skill but his decision making has always been an issue. That 50 metre dropkick attempt with a few minutes to go against France in Cardiff was just bizarre. I agree that Hayman and Jack are more likely to add more impact than Luke but was mainly referring to how laboured McAlister seems to have been since returning, as if playing European rugby has somewhat changed his game for the worse at a higher level - not having watched him play in the UK I can't really comment too much on his performance in your competitions.

Sounds like Quade Cooper tbh, at least McAlister can pass when he makes a decision.

 

[Smudge]

Stoked to see Donnelly get a run. For a while there, being a consistent performer at Super 14 and Air NZ Cup level didn't appear to be part of the criteria to get into the All Blacks. At least that was the only reason I could fathom for Donnelly not making it anywhere near the squad.

 

[James]

Was that a complete performance by the All Blacks or what. Absolutely superb game, and as we all thought Corey Jane was just awesome. Man of the Match IMO.

 

[Somerset]

Was that a complete performance by the All Blacks or what. Absolutely superb game, and as we all thought Corey Jane was just awesome. Man of the Match IMO.

The changes in Jane, Toeava and Donnelly certainly made an impact. Really dominant display from New Zealand, and I certainly didn't expect the margin of our victory. Its a shame we couldn't have started like that in the tournament and carried that momentum into the matches away in South Africa. Lineouts were far better but why would Australia not contest so many of the All Black throws? Scrums also a shambles which was a shame, no idea who was at fault though with New Zealand getting the better of the scrums later in the match I'd say we were the better team in that respect too.

 

[James]

The changes in Jane, Toeava and Donnelly certainly made an impact. Really dominant display from New Zealand, and I certainly didn't expect the margin of our victory. Its a shame we couldn't have started like that in the tournament and carried that momentum into the matches away in South Africa. Lineouts were far better but why would Australia not contest so many of the All Black throws? Scrums also a shambles which was a shame, no idea who was at fault though with New Zealand getting the better of the scrums later in the match I'd say we were the better team in that respect too.

Scrums just went from bad to worse to horrible didn't they. An area of the game the IRB probably need to look at, but I hope they don't end up going down the league route where scrums are just a complete waste.

Will be interesting to see whether Conrad Smith makes it back in at centre when he's fit.

 

[Somerset]

Scrums just went from bad to worse to horrible don't they. An area of the game the IRB probably need to look at, but I hope they don't end up going down the league route where scrums are just a complete waste.

Will be interesting to see whether Conrad Smith makes it back in at centre when he's fit.

For a start take out the "Pause" and make it "Crouch, Touch, Engage" - its common sense that the longer the pack waits the more likelihood of timing being out and a collapsed scrum. It worked well in the Air New Zealand Cup last year and I'm surprised it hasn't been tried since. I too would hate for the scrum to be diminished and I'm sure it won't, but I do agree that changes need to take place.

As for the centre position, don't forget Richard Kahui either. With both Kahui and Smith injured at least we've found out that Toeava can back up an eye-catching cameo from the bench with a sound 80 minutes (besides the yellow card) at centre. I'd say Conrad Smith would have the inside running but would like to see more from Toeava in the position too.

 

[James]

For a start take out the "Pause" and make it "Crouch, Touch, Engage" - its common sense that the longer the pack waits the more likelihood of timing being out and a collapsed scrum. It worked well in the Air New Zealand Cup last year and I'm surprised it hasn't been tried since. I too would hate for the scrum to be diminished and I'm sure it won't, but I do agree that changes need to take place.

As for the centre position, don't forget Richard Kahui either. With both Kahui and Smith injured at least we've found out that Toeava can back up an eye-catching cameo from the bench with a sound 80 minutes (besides the yellow card) at centre. I'd say Conrad Smith would have the inside running but would like to see more from Toeava in the position too.

That yellow card was down right awful, even the Aussie commentary team said that. It's nice not having to listen to Murray Mexted anymore. I found him so painful to listen to.

A few options developing at centre/second five then which is very handy. Hopefully they'll all get some chances on the European tour. Really is amazing how they turned around the performance so much in a week, although I suppose all they did was carry on from their second half performance against SA.

Looks like it was the right decision to stick by Henry than to go with Deans too. Wonder how Deans is feeling right now....

 

[BoyBrumby]

Haven't seen the game (no Sky, bah), but on the subject of scrums, one thing that really irks me is that no refs call crooked feeds anymore. It's almost an accepted part of the game now, I can't remember the last time I saw a straight put-in. Either change the law (like they did with line-out lifting) or police it properly.

I don't think anyone wants to see union scrums reduced to the level of league's.

 

[Uppercut]

Haven't seen the game (no Sky, bah), but on the subject of scrums, one thing that really irks me is that no refs call crooked feeds anymore. It's almost an accepted part of the game now, I can't remember the last time I saw a straight put-in. Either change the law (like they did with line-out lifting) or police it properly.

I don't think anyone wants to see union scrums reduced to the level of league's.

Indeed. When I last played rugby a couple of years ago, there was a particular game where we were having serious trouble with our own scrum- frustrating, because we had the beating of them all round the park. At half time the coach told the scrum half to just feed the ball because the ref never calls it. It worked, too, ended up winning by seven points.

Shouldn't happen. Dodgy feeds and failure to roll away are the two issues in rugby I don't think are penalised often enough.

 

[James]

Haven't seen the game (no Sky, bah)

Shame, you missed a cracker. Lots of running rugby. Make sure you catch it on the replay.

Will be very interesting to see how the tri-nations teams go against England and France especially. Got any predictions?

 

[DIRK-NANNES]

Looks like it was the right decision to stick by Henry than to go with Deans too. Wonder how Deans is feeling right now....

It's a little tough to make that call when we can't see their performances with the same resources.
A clinical end-of-year tour would go a little way to restoring some faith in the Three Wise Men.
I just hope Hansen doesn't see this game as justification for his flippant attitude and arrogance this past week.

 

[Somerset]

Haven't seen the game (no Sky, bah), but on the subject of scrums, one thing that really irks me is that no refs call crooked feeds anymore. It's almost an accepted part of the game now, I can't remember the last time I saw a straight put-in. Either change the law (like they did with line-out lifting) or police it properly.

I don't think anyone wants to see union scrums reduced to the level of league's.

Its always been a bit ironic that a hooker can't throw the ball in 2 feet either side of the middle of the line out without it being called not straight, but halfbacks continually get away with putting the ball into scrums almost straight into the second row. Its been called a few times in the Tri Nations, Leonard a few times in one game and then du Preez in the next. Consistency a massive issue there and can't disagree with you.

 

[Somerset]

That yellow card was down right awful, even the Aussie commentary team said that. It's nice not having to listen to Murray Mexted anymore. I found him so painful to listen to.

Agreed that Toeava's yellow card was harsh, I actually feel that Joubert wasn't that bothered about the height of the tackle - can't remember him even bothering to play advantage - but with his touch judge's advice obviously felt inclined to follow the decision to award the card.

Looks like it was the right decision to stick by Henry than to go with Deans too. Wonder how Deans is feeling right now....

To be fair Deans selected the same starting XV that was so impressive against South Africa in Brisbane a fortnight ago. When you beat the number one team in world rugby so well I'd be inclined to select the same team too, so I while I'm sure Deans will be disappointed in his side's performance tonight, in hindsight I doubt he'd select too different a team. Tactically he might conceed he and his team was off the pace, especially with the decision not contest a large proportion of All Black line outs. As for the right decision being Henry...I'd say the public will be making that statement or negating it after 2011 yet.

 

[BoyBrumby]

Shame, you missed a cracker. Lots of running rugby. Make sure you catch it on the replay.

Will be very interesting to see how the tri-nations teams go against England and France especially. Got any predictions?

SA will cream them both, France should have the beating of Oz (if they're due to play them) & possibly NZ. Think England will struggle against both Anzac nations tho. Our two best backs from last season (Armitage and Fluty; neither of whom was born in England, ftr, shades of Pietersen & Trott ) will both miss the autumn tests. Wilko is back tho, which is reassuring from a points viewpoint.

I'd love to see Cipriani and Wilkinson at 10 & 12, but Johnno's seems less than convinced with young Daniel, possibly not for entirely on-field reasons.

 

[James]

As for the right decision being Henry...I'd say the public will be making that statement or negating it after 2011 yet.

For sure, I bet 9 out of every 10 All Blacks fans would take losing every Test between now and the World Cup but winning the World Cup and Wallaby fans probably feel the same way. All comes down to that really doesn't it as you say.

Always wondered whether future generations will remember how good the All Blacks were in the 90s and for a lot of the 00s without picking up a WC.

SA will cream them both, France should have the beating of Oz (if they're due to play them) & possibly NZ. Think England will struggle against both Anzac nations tho. Our two best backs from last season (Armitage and Fluty; neither of whom was born in England, ftr, shades of Pietersen & Trott ) will both miss the autumn tests. Wilko is back tho, which is reassuring from a points viewpoint.

I'd love to see Cipriani and Wilkinson at 10 & 12, but Johnno's seems less than convinced with young Daniel, possibly not for entirely on-field reasons.

Interesting to hear, always loved seeing you Poms get smashed by the men in black Shame to hear Fluty is missing, but I can't believe he's one of your two best backs. Is he really?

Does anyone else think SA are being talked up a little too much? Are they really that far ahead of the rest as people think?

 

[Somerset]

TBH South Africa reminds me of the English team of 2003, which came into the World Cup in Australia with a.experience and b.victory over New Zealand in New Zealand that year. So it seems to me that South Africa resembles the England side but they've reached that stage two years before the 2011 tournament. Whether Matfield, Botha and Smit will stick around until 2011 is debatable, and they form a massive part of their game in one of their major strengths, the line out, and experience and presence around the field. They deserve to be number one at the moment and I'd say unless something drastic happens they'll be the favourite to win the tournament until it begins. Whether they'll suffer from the attention they've received due to their resurrection over the last few years will count against them only time will tell I guess - and I certainly hold the view that they're beatable on an off day, see the match against Australia in Brisbane where they were decidedly lackluster.

 

[BoyBrumby]

Interesting to hear, always loved seeing you Poms get smashed by the men in black Shame to hear Fluty is missing, but I can't believe he's one of your two best backs. Is he really?

Does anyone else think SA are being talked up a little too much? Are they really that far ahead of the rest as people think?

Sadly on current form, yes. Still question marks about his defence, but has added some sort of consistency to his undoubted talent, belying the old "Flaky" nickname. Ran some intelligent lines and his distribution a cut above, tbh.

Re: SA. Possibly. They were a bit jammy in beating the Lions and, as Somers alluded to, have done the old AB trick of peaking between WCs.

In their favour they do have (IMHO) the best defence in world rugby and it's usually the team with the best defence who wins the world cup.

 

[marc71178]

Just as a heads up to those in the UK who only have Freeview.

Sky 3 (channel 11 I think) has Leicester vs Newcastle on live this evening (something to do with their free weekend pass thing)

 

[ohtani's jacket]

That yellow card was down right awful, even the Aussie commentary team said that. It's nice not having to listen to Murray Mexted anymore. I found him so painful to listen to.

More painful than the Fox guys? Impossible.