Cricketweb's 5 most unfairly treated players

[TT Boy]

Nah, not at all. I watch cricket. Lee was outstanding, made my mince meat of Jaffer but Steyn's performances in Pakistan and especially at home against New Zealand were spellbinding. Against New Zealand he was bowling 150kph+ plus, took wickets at a ridiculous rate and still had time to rearrange someone's face.

And India at home is a series where Australia are heavy favourites, as India don't win test series there. Same goes when South Africa host the Indians.

 

[oitoitoi]

India at home isn't a gimme either. Lol.

Surely Tendulkar, Dravid and Laxman are bunnies away from home?!

 

[oitoitoi]

And India at home is a series where Australia are heavy favourites, as India don't win test series there.

Are you serious? That was true 20 years ago, not now.

We drew 1-1 the previous tour and very nearly won, we should have at least drawn (IMO won) this time round if it wasn't for Bucknor's hearing aid being turned off (a long with about a million other things at Sydney).

India are the only side to have consistently tested the Australians this decade.

May I also remind you that we went to Cape Town 1-1 on our last tour and if it wasn't for Dravid and Tendulkar having an absolute nightmare period against Paul Harris (they decided to pad everything and not bother with runs, clammed up and got out) we probably would have won 2-1 as SA would have been chasing at least 300 in the 4th innings.

 

[Uppercut]

Nah, not at all. I watch cricket. Lee was outstanding, made my mince meat of Jaffer but Steyn's performances in Pakistan and especially at home against New Zealand were spellbinding. Against New Zealand he was bowling 150kph+ plus, took wickets at a ridiculous rate and still had time to rearrange someone's face.

And India at home is a series where Australia are heavy favourites, as India don't win test series there. Same goes when South Africa host the Indians.

Wasim Jaffer isn't really the man to pick out from: Jaffer, Sehwag, Dravid, Tendulkar (who he dismissed four times in four games), Laxman (five times), Ganguly, Dhoni. Those were very, very flat decks too.

 

[Uppercut]

May I also remind you that we went to Cape Town 1-1 on our last tour and if it wasn't for Dravid and Tendulkar having an absolute nightmare period against Paul Harris (they decided to pad everything and not bother with runs, clammed up and got out) we probably would have won 2-1 as SA would have been chasing at least 300 in the 4th innings.

"Had we not been crap, we might have won that game"

I can use that one to explain why I should have beaten South Africa.

 

[TT Boy]

How could India have won in Cape Town? Indians were playing for a draw, had zero ambition and that led to South Africa winning the game.

India were hard done by in Australia. And as you say they could inevitably have won the series if not for umpiring decisions but you do expect your seam bowlers to do well against them.

 

[TT Boy]

Wasim Jaffer isn't really the man to pick out from: Jaffer, Sehwag, Dravid, Tendulkar (who he dismissed four times in four games), Laxman (five times), Ganguly, Dhoni. Those were very, very flat decks too.

Indeed. Only picked up Jaffer because he kept getting out in the same fashion to Lee.

 

[dontcloseyoureyes]

Not sure how you can call the Windies games "gimmie wickets" then use a NZ batting lineup on some of the greenest decks I've seen produced in South Africa as an argument for Steyn.

 

[TT Boy]

Green? Amla and Kallis had a ball.

They were lively though. Very quick. Shame Bond broke down after a day.

 

[Burgey]

Well no doubt Rich will fill you in with as much detail as you like when he gets back, but he is generally of the opinion that in late 2001 pitches flattened out and bowling stocks (particularly of the pace variety) became weaker to such an extent that it's virtually impossible to take batting averages after that point seriously, particularly in comparison to batsmen that came before them in the '80s and '90s. He is also of the opinion that players like Ponting, Kallis and Dravid were almost entirely assisted in their increased averages since that point by the aforementioned change in conditions and not really by anything as pesky as "improving" or "peaking."

Others in these parts, while acknowledging that the past decade has been a good time to be a batsman and that there are some rather inflated averages out there, have not wished to write off some of the truly great players of this era quite so easily.

Don't forget Hussain & Atherton > Hayden in tests, Nick Knight > Gilchrist in ODIs.

Back on topic:
Hayden
Paul Harris
Ponting
Lillee
Broad

 

[Burgey]

The stick Monty gets is only about 95% justified

 

[Son Of Coco]

Stuart Broad and Nathan Hauritz copped some serious flak for some very decent performances during the Ashes.

Mike Hussey in one-dayers is another one.

I think in Broad's case he copped most of the flak before he put in the good performances at the end of the series.

 

[pup11]

Michael Clarke
Ricky Ponting
Jacques Kallis
English cricketers
Nathan Hauritz
Dale Steyn

Other names worth mentioning are: Ben Hilfenhaus, Mitchell Johnson, Paul Harris and Murali.

I think the main problem here is, some posters just make an early preception about one particular player and they stick by that perception for a good chunk of that particular player's career, and they find it very hard to change that perception.

In Clarke and Ponting's cases, they are two of the most disliked players, and anything regarding them gets blown out of proportion very regularly, similarly its pretty annoying to see people taking a dig at Murali's action (just because they think his action is not right) and in a sense demeaning his glorious achievements.

 

[bagapath]

Jacques Kallis - Over rated

Inzamam - under rated

 

[Demon43]

Ur joking right

Jacques Kallis - Over rated

Inzamam - under rated

 

[Zinzan]

Utterly stunned Murali hasn't be mentioned, not due to his ability as a bowler but for the chucking allegations, or is that viewed as justifiable criticism ?

 

[G.I.Joe]

Kapil Dev - The most wickets of the 'big 4' bowling half the time on Indian pitches, and always as a one man army, with the same averages as the celebrated Ian Botham (who coincidentally batted a whole 33% slower than Kapil. I remember the word slumber being used a lot to describe the lower limit of a difference of 18% in another debate). Kapil, the one all rounder who actually lifted his game against the West Indies instead of bottling it. Yet he's spoken of as a sort of also-ran on these forums.

Jacques Kallis - apparently over rated by those who don't bother to browse through cricket related literature ordered off the internet.

 

[BoyBrumby]

Utterly stunned Murali hasn't be mentioned, not due to his ability as a bowler but for the chucking allegations, or is that viewed as justifiable criticism ?

Can of worms here, but the consensus CW has reached is that he doesn't chuck and that anyone who demurs from this view is anti-scientific or worse. Strangles sensible debate somewhat IMHO.

Kallis is almost certainly underrated by a lot on here (self probably included in all honesty), but I think it's in part because of the way he plays as a batsman. He doesn't dismantle attacks like Lara, Sachin or Ponting at their zeniths do/did and there is a strong suspicion that he often has an eye on the red ink.

He's also looked an unwilling bowler at times, but I think this may be unfair as when fit he's shouldered a fair amount of the burden, over the last couple of years particularly. He was SA's best bowler up here in 2008. A lot of the time his perceived reluctance may just have been him nurisnf injuries.

 

[oitoitoi]

Can of worms here, but the consensus CW has reached is that he doesn't chuck and that anyone who demurs from this view is anti-scientific or worse. Strangles sensible debate somewhat IMHO.

Kallis is almost certainly underrated by a lot on here (self probably included in all honesty), but I think it's in part because of the way he plays as a batsman. He doesn't dismantle attacks like Lara, Sachin or Ponting at their zeniths do/did and there is a strong suspicion that he often has an eye on the red ink.

He's also looked an unwilling bowler at times, but I think this may be unfair as when fit he's shouldered a fair amount of the burden, over the last couple of years particularly. He was SA's best bowler up here in 2008. A lot of the time his perceived reluctance may just have been him nurisnf injuries.

Don't think Ponting ever dismantled attacks of the quality of those who suffered some Lara and Tendulkar onslaughts in the 90s. I find over the last few years Kallis has dissapointed more often than not with the bat (for a player of his ability), and there is always the suspicion that he's a bit of a minnow basher.

 

[Uppercut]

I think in Broad's case he copped most of the flak before he put in the good performances at the end of the series.

I was thinking of the posts after his 6/96 at Headingley. He somehow copped more flak for performing well and taking a lot of wickets, everyone said, "o **** he'll b in da team 4 da oval nw" and "lolz wat a useless 6fer most useless wickets eva". Some people have to do more to prove themselves than most, Broad had to dismantle the entire Aussie batting lineup for about 12 runs in the deciding test of the Oval before anyone would give him any credit.