*Official* New Zealand in Sri Lanka

[Flem274*]

Anyway, a spur of the moment team for Pakistan:

Guptill
Watling (tentatively, would like to have a good think about this)
Flynn (Fulton has been ruined, Sinclair has said in those chat sessions Patton isnt ready, Myburgh isnt qualified)
Taylor
Ryder (the middle order duo that are the only main batsmen that can put up a fight)
Oram (the big man will be fine away from SL)
Vettori
McCullum (still our best keeper by miles and if demoted could get a wake up call and finally learn to bat)
Tuffey/Franklin (need a genuine swing bowler imo)
Bond/Butler (only one of these two I'm afraid, both need short spells and a lot of delicacy)
Martin/O'Brien (Martin the better history and more popular, O'Brien the better recent record and possibly gutsier.)

 

[Craig]

Vettori shouldn't has to move the order. His top order should pull their finger out more often.

 

[Smudge]

Vettori shouldn't has to move the order. His top order should pull their finger out more often.

Exactly. And I agree with Boulter - calling Vettori "afraid" simply because he hasn't moved up the order is laughable. Vettori earns his runs through grit and determination and less so on talent - whereas the top order (bar McIntosh in my opinion) is not lacking in talent.

 

[marc71178]

To suggest that Giles is the equal of Vettori is nothing short of fantasy.

For starters Giles had to bowl over the wicket into the footmarks because he wasnt good enough to bowl more positively around. This wasnt a big deal for England though as Giles had a support cast at least with Harmison/Hoggard/Jones/Flintoff so eating up overs and going for no runs, boring people out worked while their quicks operated at the other end.

The argument could be that he did that because of the better attack he was in though.

The thing about Giles is that he was actually a superb bowler in domestic cricket (averaging about 25-26) so could do it (albeit at a lower level)

I was really looking forward to being able to properly compare the 2 when Vettori signed for Warwickshire, but he then got injured and missed the season. That said I still think that they were pretty equal with the ball (although I am talking about the period up to Giles' retirement here) - and looking at Vettori's performances against the stronger sides in Tests there's not a lot to separate them.

 

[DingDong]

I hope the Vettori and Co don't start changing the team too much because of the loss. Only change I can think of is Bond coming in in place of a batsman depending on the conditions.
Anyway, there were lots of positives to take away from this tour-

1. O'Brain coming back after getting smashed in the first game.
2. Taylor's form
3. Mccullum's keeping. He was better than PJ IMO.
4. Vettori.
5. Late Order's batting form
6. Patel picking up lots of wickets.

So it's not all doom and gloom like some of the posters here make it out to be.

 

[Polo23]

The argument could be that he did that because of the better attack he was in though.

The thing about Giles is that he was actually a superb bowler in domestic cricket (averaging about 25-26) so could do it (albeit at a lower level)

I was really looking forward to being able to properly compare the 2 when Vettori signed for Warwickshire, but he then got injured and missed the season. That said I still think that they were pretty equal with the ball (although I am talking about the period up to Giles' retirement here) - and looking at Vettori's performances against the stronger sides in Tests there's not a lot to separate them.

Yeah, and Mark Richardson was as good as Martin Crowe.

 

[SilentOne]

I hope the Vettori and Co don't start changing the team too much because of the loss. Only change I can think of is Bond coming in in place of a batsman depending on the conditions.
Anyway, there were lots of positives to take away from this tour-

1. O'Brain coming back after getting smashed in the first game.
2. Taylor's form
3. Mccullum's keeping. He was better than PJ IMO.
4. Vettori.
5. Late Order's batting form
6. Patel picking up lots of wickets.

So it's not all doom and gloom like some of the posters here make it out to be.

Are you on crack?

O'brien should never have been picked for the second test, I wouldn't have picked him for the first either tbh.
McCullums keeping is always going to be strong, but if I had a choice between a mediocre keeper that can bat strongly (i.e someone like Haddin) over McCullum then I know who I'd be picking.

 

[aussie]

Vettori officially the best spin-bowling all-rounder since Benaud. Top stuff.

 

[aussie]

Are you on crack?

O'brien should never have been picked for the second test, I wouldn't have picked him for the first either tbh.
McCullums keeping is always going to be strong, but if I had a choice between a mediocre keeper that can bat strongly (i.e someone like Haddin) over McCullum then I know who I'd be picking.

No doubt he hasn't been as solid as he would like in test matches to date. But he aint mediorce like Prior for eg (although he himself as improved of late).

 

[Hurricane]

Vettori today commenting on the suggestion of being promoted up the batting order

"It's a tough one because Jacob Oram bats ahead of me and he's got five Test hundreds, averages 36 with the bat, he has a proven record, so if I went up it would only put pressure on the players behind me," Vettori said. "Plus I've got the burden of bowling a lot of overs and captaining. I'm sure it will be a question asked a lot, but I'm comfortable where I am at. It's working, so why change it?"

 

[DingDong]

Are you on crack?

O'brien should never have been picked for the second test, I wouldn't have picked him for the first either tbh.
McCullums keeping is always going to be strong, but if I had a choice between a mediocre keeper that can bat strongly (i.e someone like Haddin) over McCullum then I know who I'd be picking.

McCullum is a better batsman than Haddin for sure. It's just that he's going through a bad patch atm.

 

[Polo23]

6. Patel picking up lots of wickets.

He took 6/200 and went for 3.7/over on a spinners track. Not really much of a positive, sure he did better than in the first test, but again he bowled rubbish the majority of the time.

 

[Polo23]

McCullum is a better batsman than Haddin for sure. It's just that he's going through a bad patch atm.

In OD cricket yes, in test cricket no, Brad Haddin is miles ahead.

 

[DingDong]

He took 6/200 and went for 3.7/over on a spinners track. Not really much of a positive, sure he did better than in the first test, but again he bowled rubbish the majority of the time.

Pull your head in mate. He did as well as Murali in this test. You can't pick up 10fers every game.

 

[DingDong]

In OD cricket yes, in test cricket no, Brad Haddin is miles ahead.

I beg to differ. There's no doubt in my mind is Aussies could pick between Haddin or McCullum, they'd go for McCullum every time.

 

[Howsie]

I beg to differ. There's no doubt in my mind is Aussies could pick between Haddin or McCullum, they'd go for McCullum every time.

I actually agree with this statement. McCullum in my mind is the best keeper in the world. Australia's top six isn't as weak as NZ's and it's not like McCullum would be needed to bat 50-60 overs (In other words he wouldn't be one of the "expected' run getters like he is for NZ) He'd probably be better if he played for Australia to

 

[Polo23]

Pull your head in mate. He did as well as Murali in this test. You can't pick up 10fers every game.

How exactly is 6 wickets @ 33.3 with an RPO of 3.7 as good as 6 wickets @ 26 with an RPO of 2.8?

You are right though, you can't take 10fers every game, but you can go without wickets and still bowl well. Patel bowled rubbish.

Instead of telling everyone to "pull their head in" perhaps you should pull your head out of your arse?

 

[Polo23]

I beg to differ. There's no doubt in my mind is Aussies could pick between Haddin or McCullum, they'd go for McCullum every time.

I never said they wouldn't, that isn't the argument. McCullum's keeping is streets ahead of Haddin's and i'd guess Australia would want the better keeper. But, if they were selecting on batting alone there is no doubt they'd go for Haddin. Their test and FC batting records speak for themselves.

 

[Howsie]

Watling in for McIntosh?

Tough one tbh. Brad's been going pretty well for NZ in the emerging and A teams (He scored two 100's was it). If he starts well for ND this season I'd say go for it, he's easily a better batsmen. But having him and Guptill together would be a little as they both play attacking cricket but haven't got the stats to back it up (In FC that is).

 

[DingDong]

How exactly is 6 wickets @ 33.3 with an RPO of 3.7 as good as 6 wickets @ 26 with an RPO of 2.8?

You are right though, you can't take 10fers every game, but you can go without wickets and still bowl well. Patel bowled rubbish.

Instead of telling everyone to "pull their head in" perhaps you should pull your head out of your arse?

Can we please have a friendly discussion without resorting to abuse ok?

There wasn't much difference between the 2 bowlers at all. Murali had the added advantage of a super record behind him so batsmen don't take the chances they do with a bowler with a lesser record.