dontcloseyoureyes
BARNES OUT
And yeah yeah, he doesn't get as far back as Gerrard or do the defensive work, but they both link midfield and attack and dictate play from behind the main frontman.
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*Official* English Football Season 2009-2010
- Thread starter cover drive man
- Start date
Ikki
Hall of Fame Member
I'd be lying if I said the media and even the officiating didn't favour the English players, but the Arsenal "we are foreign victims" thing has also run it's course. I don't think Arsenal fans are in a position to judge how much is made of other players' ills. By that, I mean they probably won't be able to gauge just how much the furore really is as no one will follow the news as much as a fan of that club/player. And you make it sound as if all these "dives" are the same, when I'd argue they're not. Personally, I think Eduardo's was bad enough, and mostly important enough, to attract this reaction. If it were the last goal and you were winning 2-0 I doubt it'd have been the same.
Ikki
Hall of Fame Member
Gerrard hadn't really played a whole season behind Torres, if you recall. It was only towards the end of the last season where Gerrard did; otherwise he was played in the middle whilst Xabi got to his feet after injury. When Keane came, Gerrard slotted in the middle whilst Mascherano or Xabi rotated. In that season Keane also played with Gerrard as Torres was injured for periods.
Doesn't score as many or set up as many either.
I was one of those who really wanted Keane to work and I thought the whole saga was a joke of epic proportions. Even had he not worked out in his first season he could of in the 2nd.
A lot was also said that Keane was not Rafa's buy but was Parry's. I would not normally buy such a theory but when Liverpool sells a player only a few months after we bought him, then that gives it some weight. Especially when Parry was basically kicked out during that year too.
Uppercut
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He's signed:
Robbie Keane, £20.3m
Jermaine Pennant, £6.7m
Ryan Babel, £11.5m
Craig Bellamy, £6m
Mark Gonzalez, £4.5m
Fernando Morientes, £6.5m
Dirk Kuyt, £7m
Peter Croouch, £7m
Andrea Dossena, £7m
Glen Johnson, £10m
Lucas Leiva, £6m
Yossi Benayoun, £5m
Mohammad Sissoko, £5.3m
Dan Agger, £5.8m
Luis Garcia, £6m
Martin Skrtel, £6.5m
Albert Riera, £8m-
Alvaro Arbeloa, £3.5m
Gabriel Paletta, £2m-
David Ngog, £1.5m-
Sebastian Leto, £1.85m
Javier Mascherano, £18.6m
That's £158.55m in total, Torres not included. Don't tell me he signs crap players because he can't afford better ones. It's a choice between three Ryan Babels and a Fernando Torres, and far too often he goes for the former.
Ikki
Hall of Fame Member
You're looking at his gross expenditure, and not his net. A lot of those players were bought with the money gotten from a sale of another. For example, Arbeloa only cost us 2.6m, but we had Josemi 2m and Kromkamp for 2m but they were basically swaps for each other year after year. I didn't mean we had really 6 million to spend because that 2 million was recycled. This is reflected in the actual value of our squads. We bought and sold replacements for more or less the same amount so little was lost by transfer. A good article by Liverpudlian Tomkins was written on this last year I believe.
Rafa has overhauled the club from youth to senior squad. There are only 2 players left of that champions league team. Over 5 years, that many changes, it's really peanuts in comparison to the other top sides. Only Arsenal could really look at our spending and call us whingers.
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Craig
World Traveller
Abramovich keen to stop big-spending City - soccernet.com
Needless to say none of this applies to Real Madrid who have spent more then 250m euro on their squad or Barcelona who have been on a spending spree. Think it is time Platini went into therapy to get over his bitterness with English football clubs. Let it go already.
Needless to say none of this applies to Real Madrid who have spent more then 250m euro on their squad or Barcelona who have been on a spending spree. Think it is time Platini went into therapy to get over his bitterness with English football clubs. Let it go already.
BoyBrumby
Englishman
I might be atypical, but I immediately said:
It's just that this kind of incident is used as a stick to beat Arsenal with because we're packed full of those dirty, cheating foreigners as opposed to the 100% Anglo Saxon ManUre.
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Why shouldn't I look at his gross expenditure? The point isn't that he's bad at dealing, although he isn't great, it's that the money's there for him to spend (whether through revenue or through the sale of other players) and he spends it on crap.You're looking at his gross expenditure, and not his net. A lot of those players were bought with the money gotten from a sale of another. For more or less the same amount so little was lost by transfer. A good article by Liverpudlian Tomkins was written on this last year I believe.
Rafa has overhauled the club from youth to senior squad. There are only 2 players left of that champions league team. Over 5 years, that many changes, it's really peanuts in comparison to the other top sides. Only Arsenal could really look at our spending and call us whingers.
GIMH
Norwood's on Fire
I saw the game in the pub and everyone went mad, but I do live on Merseyside where Rooney isn't exactly, erm, popular. It got a fair going over on Sky during the game and SSN for the rest of the week, though.
That's just one example that I can remember, I'm sure there are others.
In other news, we're at home to Charlton tomorrow, can't see us getting a win yet we desperately need one. Eek.
TT Boy
Hall of Fame Member
Just laid down 16 million for a RB...
And I tink he paid over the price for a Guinness loving journeyman.
Benitez buys average because he is a poor judge of a player. He didn't buy players for Valencia and his only real successes were with players already known around Europe as being proven quality. Torres, Xabi et cetera were never going to fail.
TT Boy
Hall of Fame Member
Worst thing with Benitez is that he sells the likes of Sissoko, a quality midfielder who has all the attributes to dominate in the Premier League and replaces him with lightweights like Lucas. A player who would rather be in Italy and a player who doesn't look capable of performing in England.
TT Boy
Hall of Fame Member
Garcia was good, scored some huge goals for the club but unsurprisingly he was sold. The turnover of staff at Liverpool is far too big for them to get the consistency you need to win trophies.
Xabi didn't want to leave but was forced out of the club because his manager thought Gareth Barry was a better player than him.
Xabi didn't want to leave but was forced out of the club because his manager thought Gareth Barry was a better player than him.
Ikki
Hall of Fame Member
Because it's probably wholly relevant?
Benitez inherited a poor side and needed to make lots of chances. His top transfers for the first 3-4 years were 10 million pound players in Kuyt, Alonso, etc. Until Masch came in at 18 (and even then a chunk of that money came from the profit of Sissoko) and Torres was our first splash in years.
If you need to change 5 players in your club and you only have 25 million pounds in that kitty, you have to split it and buy decently. Yes, you can play 1 20 million pound player and 1 5 million pound player and keep the 3 you have but that's not going to improve your squad much. So Rafa has bought for more or less the same year after year for peanuts until he thought said player cut the mustard. Look at Riera, he cost us 7 million. He didn't cost us all the LMs combined that we had prior to Riera because those same players were sold for pretty much the same money we gotten them.
Let me try to make it clearer: if we bought a 7m LM in 2005, sold him for another 7m LM in 2006 and that LM, whilst being better, was not good enough, was sold for another 7m LM in 2007, and he was a keeper, it does not mean we had 21 million to spend. If you calculate it as you did the above, you'd be telling me Liverpool had 21 million when it was essentially the same 7m being recycled. It means our squad's worth hasn't really increased by 3 fold in price, although it has improved in quality.
Our best/fit XI is one of the best in the world (or rather really was last year when we had Xabi), could you have said that 4-5 years ago? I know we won the CL, but let's not kid each other here. We won the CL with players like Traore, Smicer, Mellor, Baros, etc. These are Europa cup level at best. And so IMO Rafa has done a really good job, basically trading up year after year, whilst using whatever he had. And he has put a fair investment into our youth teams so I hope we can learn to use them as Arsenal has a great system with their younger players.
Ikki
Hall of Fame Member
Actually Johnson was bought for 10. Pompey owed us 7 million. Still, I agree that's a fair chunk of change but we are also generating more money now and we had our best season in the EPL last year.
This is quite ridiculous. Sissoko being sold for double what we bought him was a steal. The guy was a great destroyer, but an equally atrocious passer. He could never have made it in Liverpool.
BoyBrumby
Englishman
Sissoko had one good season with Liverpool and was never going to play in the same side as Mascherano so I don't think selling him was bad business.
The most annoying thing about Benitez is that he only ever wins. If yer Scousers draw or (god forbid) lose it's because Parry (fornerly) or one of the yanks haven't backed him in the transfer market.
dontcloseyoureyes
BARNES OUT
You'd think Benitez was the best manager around...
Ikki
Hall of Fame Member
Do you know how many transfers we've had in the last 3-4 years? Haha, Liverpool not a selling club...heard it all now.
You're right. Mascherano not only is a better destroyer but has a great passing completion rate to boot. Sissoko was really lost in a lot of games. A born ball-winner, but had 0 football IQ. I would laugh when people would seriously compare him to a legend like Patrick Vieira.
As for Parry, well, a lot is blamed on him for screwing up a lot of potential transfers. Vidic, Dani Alves and Simao to name 3. Now with Rafa having more power, we'll see how our transfers go and how we do in the future.