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*Official* New Zealand in Sri Lanka

straw man

Hall of Fame Member
Williamson and Watling?

They would be the two players I'd back to come into the team that haven't played for NZ before. Williamson hasn't been going that well for NZ A though, he still needs another 1-2 years in domestic cricket batting at three.

Neil Broom. I've always thought he was a far better FC bastmen then Flynn, he's alot more solid in defense.
Broom is also about 26, has years of domestic experience behind him averaging 40 ish (except maybe the first couple seasons - can't be bothered looking up his record) and by this time will know his game pretty well. Whereas Flynn and Guptill clearly haven't quite worked out what they're all about yet. Only problem is that batting at 3 might be too high for Broom, and there are plenty of guys competing for that number 6 spot.
 

straw man

Hall of Fame Member
Guptill's "weakness" won't be solved in the nets, or by playing NZ first class level bowlers. He basically needs to get out pulling enough against top class bowling to learn when to pull and when to not.
At least part of it could be solved in the nets. A good player of the pull (eg Ponting) gets the bat high on his backlift so that he can hit down on the ball. Guptill doesn't and always hits low to high. That could be fixed in the nets, though it might stuff up his pull shot completely for a while.

Other part is definitely mental and like you say will only be fixed by matchplay.
 

Uppercut

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At least part of it could be solved in the nets. A good player of the pull (eg Ponting) gets the bat high on his backlift so that he can hit down on the ball. Guptill doesn't and always hits low to high. That could be fixed in the nets, though it might stuff up his pull shot completely for a while.

Other part is definitely mental and like you say will only be fixed by matchplay.
He could just not play the pull shot. It's not like he's especially uncomfortable against short stuff or anything so he may as well just put it away for now. He's got plenty of other scoring shots.
 

Polo23

International Debutant
He could just not play the pull shot. It's not like he's especially uncomfortable against short stuff or anything so he may as well just put it away for now. He's got plenty of other scoring shots.
Just what I was about to say.

Mark Richardson did away with the cover drive and pull/hook shot for his entire test career because he saw them as shots that could potentially be his downfall. He was a fantastic opener.
 

Hurricane

Hall of Fame Member
Guptill's "weakness" won't be solved in the nets, or by playing NZ first class level bowlers. He basically needs to get out pulling enough against top class bowling to learn when to pull and when to not.
Welcome to the forum.

I hope he can fix it. I remember Ian O'Brien being interviewed once when Guptil had just joined the NZ team. The asked him about Guptil - and Ian said that in First Class cricket the word on the street was to bowl short to him.

The point I think is that - he has had a weakness against short bowling for a while now including first class cricket. Whatever it takes to fix the problem - the nets, a bowling machine, coaching from martin crowe. Game time in tests like you are suggesting. I think he should be working on it as much as possible.
I also think he needs to work on his back foot defence - to give himself more options against the short ball. I have a suspicion and I don't know if it is correct, that he plays the pull a lot because he is worried about the soundness of his back foot defence.

Your point that he will get better with experience is well taken though.
 

DingDong

State Captain
I'm sure Guptill knows about his weaknesses and he's working on them ok. There's no need to rubbish his batting just because he got one top edge. He's playing really well at the moment. He's just a little unlucky.

What happened to the people who were bagging Patel yesterday? They've all disappeared. Now everybody in here thinks Patel is the best bowler in New Zealand. U people are so fickle. U need to pull ur head in.
 

Polo23

International Debutant
I'm sure Guptill knows about his weaknesses and he's working on them ok. There's no need to rubbish his batting just because he got one top edge. He's playing really well at the moment. He's just a little unlucky.

What happened to the people who were bagging Patel yesterday? They've all disappeared. Now everybody in here thinks Patel is the best bowler in New Zealand. U people are so fickle. U need to pull ur head in.
What are you talking about?

No one is rubbishing Guptill's batting, simply saying he needs to sort out his pull shot (and general play of the short ball) or else he will continue to struggle.

They've all disappeared? I still think Patel has bowled incredibly poorly in this test series and should be dropped, his 4fa yesterday doesn't change my mind.

Your attitude is one of the reasons why we continue to produce players who can't handle the top level. "Oh..he tried his best so it's ok". It's professional sport, it is their job to perform, if they don't then they open themselves up to criticism from anyone.
 
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Howsie

International Captain
Patel's still an average as off-spinner. But geez dingdong if you don't like reading this sort of stuff I'd say an online forum isn't for you.
 

Howsie

International Captain
Broom is also about 26, has years of domestic experience behind him averaging 40 ish (except maybe the first couple seasons - can't be bothered looking up his record) and by this time will know his game pretty well. Whereas Flynn and Guptill clearly haven't quite worked out what they're all about yet. Only problem is that batting at 3 might be too high for Broom, and there are plenty of guys competing for that number 6 spot.
If Daniel Flynn is good enough to bat at three for NZ then Neil Broom most difinately is. In 2006-07 he averaged 70 odd and last season he averaged 50 odd. Broom's put up more then one good season in domestic cricket, something that Flynn has yet to do.
 

Hurricane

Hall of Fame Member
"The son of Indian parents, but born and brought up in Wellington's eastern suburbs, offspinner Jeetan Patel was fast-tracked into the New Zealand side after John Bracewell, the coach, identified him as the sort of slow bowler who could be effective at the death. Patel first played for Wellington in 1999-2000, bowling 59 overs and taking 5 for 145 against Auckland on his debut. Three middling seasons followed, and he seemed to be heading nowhere, with an average in the mid-forties. But then he took 6 for 32 against Otago in the last State Championship match of 2004-05, propelling Wellington into the final against Auckland, which they lost. Suddenly good judges were noting his ability to make the ball loop and drift, not unlike a right-handed Daniel Vettori."

I want to talk about Patels drift and loop.

It is hard to tell from TV - and you can only really judge if you face him - but compared to other spin bowlers that I do observe on TV he doesn't get much drift or loop. And that is his problem. Harbajhan (spelling?) gets loads of loop.

When I first observed Patel - i thought he was foolish. He seemed to just try to spin the ball as much as possible with no game plan for where he was trying to bowl. And then he came out in an interview and said he was going to try to stop spinning it as much and go for control.

I think what helps make the ball loop is the number or revolutions you put on it. So I think if he has the ability to spin it more he should go back to that because this control business isn't troubling the best batsman in the world. It is probably good for one dayers though. For the record I think that Patel has ok control and ok line and length. Except when players use their feet to him and then he doesn't know what to do and gets screwed up.
 

straw man

Hall of Fame Member
Well, play's started for the day. Not going to ask much of Taylor and Vettori - they'll do what they'll do, but McCullum and Oram need to show why they're in the team and score some runs.
 

straw man

Hall of Fame Member
McCullum should just play naturally.
Doesn't seem to have much of an idea at the moment!

Dropped twice in one over, and I think from memory Taylor has been dropped three times this series. Not the best fielding from SL (apart from that excellent one handed catch by Jayawardene in the slips in the first match).
 

Howsie

International Captain
I'm guessing McCullum was one of the players that wanted the Aussie tour cut short. Drop him I say, atleast Hopkins would grind it out. McCullum has no idea what to do anymore.
 

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