****OFFICIAL**** Lara vs Tendulkar Debate Thread

[0RI0N]

I quoted wikipedia to QUOTE A WISDEN RANKING SYSTEM. You rely on Wisden stats so much, you must believe them to be true. Why only believe when it is convenient?????????????????

There is no way you can conclusively say Lara is the greatest amongst his peers. The gap between Tendulkar and Lara is very small and you have to respect another person if he believes Tendulkar>Lara.

You are talking out of your ass.

yep he mad.
Lol don't smash your keyboard or pop a vein.
Intrawebz not serious bizniz

 

[Pratters]

yep he mad.
Lol don't smash your keyboard or pop a vein.
Intrawebz not serious bizniz

You haven't answered my question. If you believe in Wisden 100 so much, why not believe it when Wisden says that Tendulkar is the second best test and ODI player of all time?

 

[bagapath]

For Orion

Tendulkar second-best ever: Wisden

That list, made in 2002 by Ananth Narayanan, is obsolete. A more recent list by the same statistician can be found here

Cricinfo - Blogs - It Figures - The great Test batsmen - a look across 132 years

 

[Pigeon]

That list, made in 2002 by Ananth Narayanan, is obsolete. A more recent list by the same statistician can be found here

Cricinfo - Blogs - It Figures - The great Test batsmen - a look across 132 years

Actually that was just for Orion. I personally don't believe insuch lists made out of arbitrary models.

 

[Pigeon]

Ananth Narayan is well known to be a biased Lara fan. I can also create a model, and based on my allocation of points to different aspects of career runs, I can tweak it to make Tendulkar the best batsman since Don also.

 

[bagapath]

Ananth Narayan is well known to be a biased Lara fan. I can also create a model, and based on my allocation of points to different aspects of career runs, I can tweak it to make Tendulkar the best batsman since Don also.

then why didnt he do it when he made the first list in 2002? this is based on statistical analysis. a simple exercise of removing minnows would make it obvious to you that lara has better numbers compared to sachin. better average, more runs, fewer innings to reach 100s etc. and he anyway has a better strike rate. any sensible statistical analysis is likely to show you that lara is better than sachin. it may also show that mohammad yousuff is better than viv richards. but, hey, these are numbers. they know only one language. if you are going to use stats, use it. if you dont want to, that is fine too. but dont be childish and call anyone biased just because the numbers match your case once but not the second time.

 

[0RI0N]

then why didnt he do it when he made the first list in 2002? this is based on statistical analysis. a simple exercise of removing minnows would make it obvious to you that lara has better numbers compared to sachin. better average, more runs, fewer innings to reach 100s etc. and he anyway has a better strike rate. any sensible statistical analysis is likely to show you that lara is better than sachin. it may also show that mohammad yousuff is better than viv richards. but, hey, these are numbers. they know only one language. if you are going to use stats, use it. if you dont want to, that is fine too. but dont be childish and call anyone biased just because the numbers match your case once but not the second time.

Couldn't agree more baganpath.
And to say you could create a statistical model Pigeon...N0.
It is you that is talking out of your ass.
Hypocrisy = Pigeon

 

[Pigeon]

then why didnt he do it when he made the first list in 2002? this is based on statistical analysis. a simple exercise of removing minnows would make it obvious to you that lara has better numbers compared to sachin. better average, more runs, fewer innings to reach 100s etc. and he anyway has a better strike rate. any sensible statistical analysis is likely to show you that lara is better than sachin. it may also show that mohammad yousuff is better than viv richards. but, hey, these are numbers. they know only one language. if you are going to use stats, use it. if you dont want to, that is fine too. but dont be childish and call anyone biased just because the numbers match your case once but not the second time.

Quite simple. He himself has admitted it in that blog that he is a Lara fan.

 

[Pigeon]

Couldn't agree more baganpath.
And to say you could create a statistical model Pigeon...N0.
It is you that is talking out of your ass.
Hypocrisy = Pigeon

Welcome to the Ignore bin mate.

 

[bagapath]

Quite simple. He himself has admitted it in that blog that he is a Lara fan.

did i ask you to prove to me that ananth is a lara fan? my question was, if you accuse him of bias now why do you choose to use his earlier list? doesn't that make you biased? and why did ananth not "tweak" the numbers earlier to have lara on top even then?

 

[honestbharani]

did i ask you to prove to me that ananth is a lara fan? my question was, if you accuse him of bias now why do you choose to use his earlier list? doesn't that make you biased? and why did ananth not "tweak" the numbers earlier to have lara on top even then?

bagapath... this is not your first debate with Precamb, is it?

 

[bagapath]

bagapath... this is not your first debate with Precamb, is it?

is it official that he is precamb? i dont remember running into trouble with precambrian though i know he is capable of dragging people into long winding, pointless debates. this off the mark answer by pigeon, especially the irritating, patronizing word "simple", kind of gives me some nostalgia. may be u r right.

 

[aussie]

Tendulkar has a very good batting record while captaining over all.

Ye overall he did. But as honestbharani highlighed, just like how Lara pre-tour issues may have likely affected his batting vs PAK 97. I think it did so for Tendy as well vs SA 2000, after a few years of poor test performances for IND.

 

[Pratters]

Ye overall he did. But as honestbharani highlighed, just like how Lara pre-tour issues may have likely affected his batting vs PAK 99. I think it did so for Tendy as well vs SA 2000, after a few years of poor test performances for IND.

Nah, I beg to differ.

Tendulkar as captain - 2000 runs @ 51. After a few years of poor performances for India in tests as captain, Tendulkar's batting reads as follows -

At the fag end of his first tenure -

Averages 50 in a drawn series v Lanka (3 draws).

At the fag end of his second tenure -

Key stats of last 3 tests.

He had already given up his test captaincy after the Australian tour before the South African test series started. So there was no pressure on him to deliver the goods in the South Africa series.

 

[aussie]

Nah, I beg to differ.

Tendulkar as captain - 2000 runs @ 51. After a few years of poor performances for India in tests as captain, Tendulkar's batting reads as follows -

At the fag end of his first tenure -

Averages 50 in a drawn series v Lanka (3 draws).

At the fag end of his second tenure -

Key stats of last 3 tests.

He had already given up his test captaincy after the Australian tour before the South African test series started. So there was no pressure on him to deliver the goods in the South Africa series.

Tendy was poor/average vs SA in both home as captain in 96/97 & 2000, although he had a good overall record as captain. It seems like captaincy possibily had a negative effective, since he made runs vs SA in SA during the 90s.

But like Lara, Tendy clearly wasn't a great tactician as skipper (although Lara improved a great deal in his second stint from 2003-2006). As great batsmen their way of leading was making runs.

 

[Pratters]

Tendy was poor/average vs SA in both home as captain in 96/97 & 2000, although he had a good overall record as captain. It seems like captaincy possibily had a negative effective, since he made runs vs SA in SA during the 90s.

But like Lara, Tendy clearly wasn't a great tactician as skipper (although Lara improved a great deal in his second stint from 2003-2006). As great batsmen their way of leading was making runs.

That's just a coincidence. The 1996/97series was Tendulkar's second as skipper when he had the least pressure after winning the one off test v Australia.

Then the series in 2000, he had already denounced his captaincy, so there wasn't any pressure.

So I don't take the batting failures as a result of his captaincy as he averaged over 50 as captain in tests. You are reading too much into it.

If you are really interested in Tendulkar's captaincy, read my long post in the India Captains thread. There is no doubt that Tendulkar failed as a captain. He has always had a great cricketing mind. Remember how he asked left arm bowlers the likes of Nilesh Kulkarni to bowl at his pads to prepare for Warne pre 1998-99. He has always been helpful to his fellow captains. As a captain, I rate Tendulkar higher but both were failuers no doubt.

 

[aussie]

That's just a coincidence. The 1996/97series was Tendulkar's second as skipper when he had the least pressure after winning the one off test v Australia.

Then the series in 2000, he had already denounced his captaincy, so there wasn't any pressure.

So I don't take the batting failures as a result of his captaincy as he averaged over 50 as captain in tests. You are reading too much into it.

If you are really interested in Tendulkar's captaincy, read my long post in the India Captains thread. There is no doubt that Tendulkar failed as a captain.

Ye i probably am. Since i know he handled Donald & co fairly well in the 90s - better than Lara. So theirfore that means no comparison with "captaincy/board issues" can't be drawn with Lara failures in PAK 97. Another point to Tendy.

 

[Burgey]

Ye i probably am. Since i know he handled Donald & co fairly well in the 90s - better than Lara. So theirfore that means no comparison with "captaincy/board issues" can't be drawn with Lara failures in PAK 97. Another point to Tendy.

And an even bigger point to Ponting tbf.

 

[Burgey]

Well everyone seems to be repeating the same thing again and again now. We seem to have run out of things to say regarding their batting now.

Welcome to Cricket Chat "vs" threads mate

 

[MrIncredible]

And if you know anything about tennis, Federer has 15 grand slams and Nadal has a wobbly knee.

Federer is better at this point (career wise) but its left to be seen if Nadal will catch him. BTW Nadal has more slams at his age