GIMH
Norwood's on Fire
Haha, hardly grammar police, not like I pulled you on an apostrophe. You were trying to be a smart arse, and failed, deal with it susu
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Usain Bolt's Olympic 100m win
- Thread starter Craig
- Start date
Pigeon
Banned
Not really mate.
Pigeon
Banned
For Fred.
Matt79
Hall of Fame Member
Brumby, it's not just you. Enough sprinters have been found after the fact to have been doping that I think it's foolish to accept without qualifovation that any top class sprinter is clean. That is especially the case when that athlete is capable of things no one else can replicate. It's a sad state of affairs.
Bolt like everyone else is entitled to the presumption of innocence, which is why of course he is permitted to run, why his records go in the book, why he can earn $$$$ for his prowess, and why I will continue to cheer and applaud his achievements. That said, a presumption of innocence is not the same thing as not being subject to doubts.
It is possible, and I hope it is the case, that he IS naturally this good. It is also possible he's been boosted in his performance by a drug they don't yet have a test for. Sadly experience has shown us there are more cheats than freaks. For that reason, I'll retain the qualification "if he's clean".
Bolt like everyone else is entitled to the presumption of innocence, which is why of course he is permitted to run, why his records go in the book, why he can earn $$$$ for his prowess, and why I will continue to cheer and applaud his achievements. That said, a presumption of innocence is not the same thing as not being subject to doubts.
It is possible, and I hope it is the case, that he IS naturally this good. It is also possible he's been boosted in his performance by a drug they don't yet have a test for. Sadly experience has shown us there are more cheats than freaks. For that reason, I'll retain the qualification "if he's clean".
shivfan
Banned
Exactly....
The Balco case blew the top of a lot of drug cheats. That's why the mens 100 final was full of young sprinters, instead of the pumped up 30-year olds from days gone by.
shivfan
Banned
Flo-Jo set her ridiculous records before drug-testing became serious in athletics. The moment the authorities said they were testing for drugs, Flo-Jo curiously retired instead of choosing to capitalise on her gold medals won in the Olympics.Doping will always be one step ahead of detection for the simple reason a drug has to be developed before a test for it can be devised.
I'm not accusing Bolt of anything, btw and sincerely hope he is clean but the argument that "he's never tested for anything so he must be drug-free" is a facile one. Lance Armstrong & Flo-Jo never submitted positive tests either and, well, you know...
EDIT: As I said only a few posts before. If a point's worth making once...
shivfan
Banned
THere's one factor you cynics are forgetting....
The cyclists (Lance Armstrong?) and the athletes (Marion Jones) who achieved times which were tainted did so before the Balco controversy. After Balco, the face of athletics has changed considerably. Right now, drug-testing in athletics is far more effective than it is in sports like cricket.
Craig
World Traveller
There is a lot of incriminating evidence against Lance Armstrong, from IM's between two former team-mates that all but said there was an organised doping ring on their team at the time, testimonies from a former female soignuer (they are the people that give the massages, carry their bags, organise food and water bottles for the upcoming racing, and basically doing all the crappy jobs in between) on what was going on at the time, and even his team manager is nicknamed the 'The Hog' from his racing days where apparently he liked to keep all the drugs to himself.
You have to realise that it is not that hard to get stuff like EPO, steriods etc. as it can be easily ordered over the internet and it is pretty cheap when you order it from China and plus there are a lot of corrupt pharmaceutical reps to which they are more then happy to sell to athletes on the side to make some more $$$$$$$. Put it this way, if is easy and cheap enough for me to get EPO from China (not that I ever have), then it wouldn't be too hard for Usain Bolt to do so. You have to factor in that Armstrong is worth a lot of money to cycling's governing body - the UCI (basically the International Cycling Union in English), that their is a lot of talk and speculation that sport's head honcho's are more then willing sweep things under the carpet, so Armstrong doesn't test positive so they can continue raking in the dough. It's the same with athletics, tennis, golf (believe it or not), and swimming. And I have heard a lot of strong talk about football as well.
You have to realise that it is not that hard to get stuff like EPO, steriods etc. as it can be easily ordered over the internet and it is pretty cheap when you order it from China and plus there are a lot of corrupt pharmaceutical reps to which they are more then happy to sell to athletes on the side to make some more $$$$$$$. Put it this way, if is easy and cheap enough for me to get EPO from China (not that I ever have), then it wouldn't be too hard for Usain Bolt to do so. You have to factor in that Armstrong is worth a lot of money to cycling's governing body - the UCI (basically the International Cycling Union in English), that their is a lot of talk and speculation that sport's head honcho's are more then willing sweep things under the carpet, so Armstrong doesn't test positive so they can continue raking in the dough. It's the same with athletics, tennis, golf (believe it or not), and swimming. And I have heard a lot of strong talk about football as well.
Matt79
Hall of Fame Member
Oh right. Sorry, I thought the lid had been blown off when Ben Johnson tested positive. Or the guy after that. Or the guy after that. Or the... you get the idea. The Balco case was one particularly bad instance - it would be naive in the extreme to think the sport is now clean - even if the fallout of Balco has produced some genuine willingness to tackle the issue.THere's one factor you cynics are forgetting....
The cyclists (Lance Armstrong?) and the athletes (Marion Jones) who achieved times which were tainted did so before the Balco controversy. After Balco, the face of athletics has changed considerably. Right now, drug-testing in athletics is far more effective than it is in sports like cricket.
Pigeon
Banned
In other news, the Dalai Lama is suspected of buying nuclear weapons from US to thwart Chinese invasion into Tibet.
If China was such a good route of drugs trade, how come he is not yet tested positive despite the ridiculous number of tests he had to take following his record breaking run since last 2 years? Not atleast once? Not even remotedly?
BoyBrumby
Englishman
Soeul in 1988? There was me thinking that was the only time an Olympic 100m champion returned a positive test during the games.Flo-Jo set her ridiculous records before drug-testing became serious in athletics. The moment the authorities said they were testing for drugs, Flo-Jo curiously retired instead of choosing to capitalise on her gold medals won in the Olympics.
Matt79
Hall of Fame Member
What does the Dalai Llama have to do with anything in this thread, besides being a silly straw man youre putting up in the absence of a proper argument?
Athletes are going to continue to get away with usig drugs - at least in the short term because as fast as tests are improved the drugs are improved to become harder to detect.
Craig
World Traveller
Because there are masking agents and there is products they don't have a test for yet. For example HGH is around and can be used, but the testing stages is no where near conclusive ad they are still doing research on it before they can test athletes (the test was only developed last year by an Australian scientist). Think about this way, if you are driving your car and all the time you are at least 10km/h over the limit, but you never get caught by the police for speeding, does that mean you can say "I have never been caught speeding" even though you have, as you have never been speeding?
I haven't actually said "Usain Bolt cheats", just debunking the idea that never been caught = never been doping. And I haven't said Bolt buys drugs from China, I was just pointing it out how easy it is to get stuff like EPO and steriods. Try reading a little bit more.
pasag
RTDAS
Bolt heading to Melbourne? - Sport - theage.com.au
Lol, can't see the point of him coming here and not running.
Lol, can't see the point of him coming here and not running.
Pigeon
Banned
The topic is about Bolt mate. Innocent till he is convicted for me. And I guess it will never happen.
I stop here.
shivfan
Banned
Not much of an athletics fan, are you?
The Balco controversy blew the lid on a wide array of PEDs and masking agents that were not being tested for, so it enabled the drug-testers to catch up with the drug-takers. As a result, instead of having the 100 metres packed with mediocre athletes who've found muscular builds and amazing times when they turn 30, now the 100 final is filled with athletes under 30, for a change....
Nobody said it was clean. But it is a helluva lot cleaner than it was, and probably cleaner than some other sports. When athletes are caught with nandrolone, as Shoaib Akhtar and Mo Asif were, they get a two-year ban. Cricket could learn a thing or two from the present athletics drug-testing regime....
shivfan
Banned
I'm talking about SERIOUS drug-testing....
Johnson was so pumped up with steroids, even cricket drug-testers would've been able to catch him.
